Twas from LoTR, the head Uruk-hai is impaled on Boromir's sword and he drags himself along its length in order to kill his foe. Whereupon he is Swiftly decapitated for his troubles.
The silly sod!
Is there a way to try and "learn to love" Nemesis?
- Thread starter Danoz
- Start date
Twas from LoTR, the head Uruk-hai is impaled on Boromir's sword and he drags himself along its length in order to kill his foe. Whereupon he is Swiftly decapitated for his troubles.
The silly sod!
That would've made it a great movie. The Federation would be so patriotic, the battle scenes would've been excellent, the score would be beautifully composed by Trevor Rabin or Steve Jablonsky, we'd have some teenager/early twenties hot chick with no characterisation wearing very little.
What's not to like?
ltcmmanderdata
Lieutenant Commander
Nemesis is enjoyable but i dont think i could ever learn to love it
Off-hand I can think of two reasons:
1. How would you explain Lore's back-story to the audience who hadn't seen his episodes of TNG? I mean, trying to explain that he's the protoype for data who was deactivated 'cause he was kinda evil, then reactivated by the innocent Enterprise crew only to try and kill them, then jettisoned into space, then taken aboard a Pakled vessel and brought to Dr. Soongh's home world by way of homing device where he stole Data's emotion chip, after which he teamed up with a rogue band of Borg but was ultimately defeated after which Data got his chip back and Lore was deactivated. That's alot to explain.
2. If you could successfully explain the above, it would make the Enterprise crew look like a real bunch of boobs if they were willing to both activate him and dump a copy of Data's memory into him after all that. Well, a bigger bunch of boobs than they already were for finding a random android on a planet and doing that.
Off-hand I can think of two reasons:
1. How would you explain Lore's back-story to the audience who hadn't seen his episodes of TNG? I mean, trying to explain that he's the protoype for data who was deactivated 'cause he was kinda evil, then reactivated by the innocent Enterprise crew only to try and kill them, then jettisoned into space, then taken aboard a Pakled vessel and brought to Dr. Soongh's home world by way of homing device where he stole Data's emotion chip, after which he teamed up with a rogue band of Borg but was ultimately defeated after which Data got his chip back and Lore was deactivated. That's alot to explain.
You don't have to explain all that. Just allude in dialog that Lore was an 'evil' and emotional long-lost previous model of Soong android, who Data ultimately had to deactivate. The rest is inconsequential.
"Lore's positronic net is completely wiped. There is no trace of the original Lore left in there anywhere. His motor skills still function, but it's just an empty shell, a vacant body."
That would've made it a great movie. The Federation would be so patriotic, the battle scenes would've been excellent, the score would be beautifully composed by Trevor Rabin or Steve Jablonsky, we'd have some teenager/early twenties hot chick with no characterisation wearing very little.
What's not to like?
It would have probably turned out to be a pretty mindless but entertaining and well-made popcorn flick. Definitely up a notch from what we got, methinks.
MICHAEL BAY'S EXPLOSIONS!
Why love that which is evil and corrupt and full of computer displays rendered by an Amoeba with an etch-a-sketch?
Hate it, come on, you know you want to...
(Eh, shiny space-battle bits though, no hate for those- much. )
Hate it, come on, you know you want to...
(Eh, shiny space-battle bits though, no hate for those- much.
)
CaptainHawk1
Commodore
Next to Battlefield Earth it may be the worst SciFi film ever made.
No, there is nothing redeeming about it.
Aside from the horrible acting, ridiculous script that's just all over the place and stupid plot what really pisses me off is that they spent 15 years developing Data and convincing us all that he is more than just the sum of his parts and the undo it with the premise that Data can live on again though B4 because all Data really is now is a machine with a computer program.
It's horrific.
...And yes, Michael Bay probably could have made it at least watchable.
No, there is nothing redeeming about it.
Aside from the horrible acting, ridiculous script that's just all over the place and stupid plot what really pisses me off is that they spent 15 years developing Data and convincing us all that he is more than just the sum of his parts and the undo it with the premise that Data can live on again though B4 because all Data really is now is a machine with a computer program.
It's horrific.
...And yes, Michael Bay probably could have made it at least watchable.
I think that's a question for a pharmacist.
CaptainHawk1
Commodore
If only they would have inserted some of the deleted scenes to the film for the DVD release...would have made the film betterand easier to love.
I agree seems like most of the character moments where cut and all that was left was the action.
I've heard people say this before and I don't agree. The deleted scenes sucked too and added nothing.
No... there is no love to learn for Nemesis. 
Let me cite the reasons:
1. Much of the Shinzon characterization was not believable. Human beings did him no harm. The Romulans did. If anything his hatred should be towards them, not the Federation. The Romulan oppression of the Remans would be the bane of his existence. His hatred of the Federation was not believable.
2. Shinzon's condition. With all of the medical technology at that time, the genetic sequencing could have been easily updated to prevent the deterioration. Modified Borg nano-probes could be deployed to perform the updates (certainly the Romulans having encountered the Borg and even worked with the Federation would have gained some Borg technology). This whole concept of him not aging forward 30 years resulting in a destabilization of his DNA is medically ridiculous. And what... his viceroy is somehow able to stabilize him momentarily, pressing his hand against Shinzon's chest? He is telepathically endowed. The Remans are not described as having telekinetic powers.
3. In TNG, early Noonien Soong prototypes were found. I'd have thought that they would be preserved securely in a museum or in laboratories for study. I assume the B4 was somehow stolen... it would have at least been interesting to see it revealed that there was a theft. We never quite know how Shinzon ever came into possession of it. And given how thorough the schematics are known of the prototypes, it would be very easy to detect any modifications. The audience is duped into thinking it wasn't known (certainly one would expect there to be some doubt about the trustability of B4 and prevent it from using the computer systems the way it did--oddly he is given free access and the knowledge of Data's access codes), then we later learn it was a ruse to give Shinzon false information about the locations of Starfleet vessels.
4. The locating of B4's parts was such an obvious baiting. It made absolutely no sense for the parts to be strewn about as they were, resting on the planet surface or just a few inches below the dirt. Certainly they would have been found by the locals. And... given how Shinzon intended for them to be found and assembled, wouldn't the area have been protected somehow? If Picard and his team had been killed trying to take B4's parts back to the Enterprise, the whole plan would have collapsed. This makes no sense.
5. The handling of the relationship between Shinzon and the Romulans was weak and unresolved. Nothing very believable came of it.
6. The "arrangement" for the Enterprise to visit Romulus made absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever. The whole thing was done in such a clandestine way, you'd expect that a "lesser" vessel would be sent. Why risk the valuable flagship of the Federation? Ridiculous. I'd have expected the Federation to send a lesser vessel, lose contact, then dispatch the Enterprise and a few other ships to investigate together. The first contact would proceed as it did and the Romulans would act as though no previous ship ever arrived, in keeping with the premise of the Nemesis story.
7. The away team beams down to the Praetor's chamber. They don't immediately start scanning the whole area for lifeforms? No arrangement for emergency beamout if things look suspicious or hostile? The way the Scimitar approached the Enterprise certainly was not diplomatically handled. There was plenty to be suspicious about. It just wasn't believable how nonchalantly they waltzed into certain danger.
8. The Romulans did not have the technology to build a vessel like the Scimitar. If they HAD, then you'd see all of the warbirds replaced with them. Superior firepower to Federation starships and undetectable cloaking shields. But no... just one vessel. This makes no sense. Was it Reman developed? Hard to believe... given how oppressed Remus had been, they wouldn't have the resources and technologies to make such a vessel. Where would they get it from? Stolen from the Romulans? If so, then... the vicious circle continues.
9. The interior firefights between the Remans and the Enterprise crew. I've never seen such bad shooting before. Completely ridiculous. People standing out in corridors in clear view and not killed? But then you see Captain Picard run about the Scimitar vessel shooting Remans left and right with little trouble. Again, it makes no sense.
10. There is one Reman who breaks off and jumps down an access tube. Then, suddenly, Riker and his team are able to push back the other Remans. It came off completely unbalanced. Riker takes it upon himself to pursue the fleeing Reman. Strange how he didn't take any backup with him... not even just one person? And he wanders about, no tricorder in hand to look for lifesigns. What about accessing the computer? Ask for it to detect Reman lifesigns and provide a location? Certainly it would be capable of that. And what was the Reman doing? We never see him with a specific mission. I imagined he might be a saboteur. But we never see any weaponry or devices like a small bomb, or any indication of just where he is heading. The killing of him looked WAY too much like Kirk kicking the Klingon captain to his dealth in ST: III.
11. The battle between the Enterprise and the Scimitar was poorly orchestrated. There are these long pauses that make no sense in real time, where the crew casually talks about alternatives. Knowing what the Scimitar is capable of, it would have continued firing until the Enteprise was completely disabled, right from the beginning. In a real battle situation like this, there aren't these "long moments of rest" where everyone can casually talk about the next steps. The pacing was all off, completely unrealistic. Also, from what we see of the Enterprise engaged in battle, it seems absurd that they would have run out of photon torpedos that quickly. The 1701-E is a battleship, not the more sedate exploratory oriented 1701-D. And yet the E seemed to perform no better than the D.
12. As the Enterprise approached the Bassen Rift, the other Starfleet vessels were 40 minutes away at their present course and speed. That is VERY close by. What, no hails upon the Scimitar attack? Certainly some of the Federation starships could have made it there in 15 minutes at high warp. But no... not even an attempt to hail them. It makes no sense.
13. Picard enters the control room where Shinzon is. He picks off everyone around him with his phaser rifle. Why not Shinzon? Given what he has done, I see ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for him to have any feelings for him. His destruction is essential for preserving the life of everyone around him, especially the inhabitants of planet Earth. Picard looks at the thalaron core and could have easily destroyed it. Afterall, he was on a self-sacrifice mission. Why didn't he fire his phaser rifle at it? Or, why not just kill Shinzon and then operate the controls to shutdown the thalaron deployment taking place? OK... so we get the dramatic ending. It's just Shinzon and Picard... and Picard dispatches him with a sharp pole. Then what? He just waits, looking at him with the countdown proceeding, while Shinzon gradually pulls himself closer to Picard? Ummm... remember Soran? Picard certainly acted in his best abilities to shutdown the missile that Soran was planning to launch. Where did that mindset go? It was so out of character for Picard. I couldn't stand that scene.
14. Thalaron radiation. The handling of this concept was highly flawed. I'm sorry, but a radioactive material has certain radiative properties that give it that designation. If you destroy a device containing thalaron, you have to expect it to be radiated outward. Everyone around the Scimitar should have died from thalaron radiation exposure when the ship exploded. Again... complete and utter nonsense.
15. Oh yes... remember the planetary diagram of Romulus and Remus? Anyone notice how dangerously close the planets were? Um, it wouldn't work in real space my friends. It was sheer lunacy to show two planets with paths so close together. The gravitational forces simply wouldn't allow it to exist.
I could go on... but I'm tired. And so deeply disappointed. Considering all these points together, Nemesis was a catastrophe. I can't believe that Berman produced such trash... wouldn't he have learned by now? What a sorry way to end the Next Generation movies. And it was certainly ended alright--no one would fund another TNG movie. There are some elements here and there that can be enjoyed, but overall the bad points heavily outweigh the good ones. I'm just glad I never bothered to buy the
movie.
Oh... remember the scene with Riker and Deana getting all teary eyed from Picard's speech? Just pretend he's talking in remorse about how badly the movie ended up. Now THAT is a scene I can believe.
Let me cite the reasons:1. Much of the Shinzon characterization was not believable. Human beings did him no harm. The Romulans did. If anything his hatred should be towards them, not the Federation. The Romulan oppression of the Remans would be the bane of his existence. His hatred of the Federation was not believable.
2. Shinzon's condition. With all of the medical technology at that time, the genetic sequencing could have been easily updated to prevent the deterioration. Modified Borg nano-probes could be deployed to perform the updates (certainly the Romulans having encountered the Borg and even worked with the Federation would have gained some Borg technology). This whole concept of him not aging forward 30 years resulting in a destabilization of his DNA is medically ridiculous. And what... his viceroy is somehow able to stabilize him momentarily, pressing his hand against Shinzon's chest? He is telepathically endowed. The Remans are not described as having telekinetic powers.
3. In TNG, early Noonien Soong prototypes were found. I'd have thought that they would be preserved securely in a museum or in laboratories for study. I assume the B4 was somehow stolen... it would have at least been interesting to see it revealed that there was a theft. We never quite know how Shinzon ever came into possession of it. And given how thorough the schematics are known of the prototypes, it would be very easy to detect any modifications. The audience is duped into thinking it wasn't known (certainly one would expect there to be some doubt about the trustability of B4 and prevent it from using the computer systems the way it did--oddly he is given free access and the knowledge of Data's access codes), then we later learn it was a ruse to give Shinzon false information about the locations of Starfleet vessels.
4. The locating of B4's parts was such an obvious baiting. It made absolutely no sense for the parts to be strewn about as they were, resting on the planet surface or just a few inches below the dirt. Certainly they would have been found by the locals. And... given how Shinzon intended for them to be found and assembled, wouldn't the area have been protected somehow? If Picard and his team had been killed trying to take B4's parts back to the Enterprise, the whole plan would have collapsed. This makes no sense.
5. The handling of the relationship between Shinzon and the Romulans was weak and unresolved. Nothing very believable came of it.
6. The "arrangement" for the Enterprise to visit Romulus made absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever. The whole thing was done in such a clandestine way, you'd expect that a "lesser" vessel would be sent. Why risk the valuable flagship of the Federation? Ridiculous. I'd have expected the Federation to send a lesser vessel, lose contact, then dispatch the Enterprise and a few other ships to investigate together. The first contact would proceed as it did and the Romulans would act as though no previous ship ever arrived, in keeping with the premise of the Nemesis story.
7. The away team beams down to the Praetor's chamber. They don't immediately start scanning the whole area for lifeforms? No arrangement for emergency beamout if things look suspicious or hostile? The way the Scimitar approached the Enterprise certainly was not diplomatically handled. There was plenty to be suspicious about. It just wasn't believable how nonchalantly they waltzed into certain danger.
8. The Romulans did not have the technology to build a vessel like the Scimitar. If they HAD, then you'd see all of the warbirds replaced with them. Superior firepower to Federation starships and undetectable cloaking shields. But no... just one vessel. This makes no sense. Was it Reman developed? Hard to believe... given how oppressed Remus had been, they wouldn't have the resources and technologies to make such a vessel. Where would they get it from? Stolen from the Romulans? If so, then... the vicious circle continues.
9. The interior firefights between the Remans and the Enterprise crew. I've never seen such bad shooting before. Completely ridiculous. People standing out in corridors in clear view and not killed? But then you see Captain Picard run about the Scimitar vessel shooting Remans left and right with little trouble. Again, it makes no sense.
10. There is one Reman who breaks off and jumps down an access tube. Then, suddenly, Riker and his team are able to push back the other Remans. It came off completely unbalanced. Riker takes it upon himself to pursue the fleeing Reman. Strange how he didn't take any backup with him... not even just one person? And he wanders about, no tricorder in hand to look for lifesigns. What about accessing the computer? Ask for it to detect Reman lifesigns and provide a location? Certainly it would be capable of that. And what was the Reman doing? We never see him with a specific mission. I imagined he might be a saboteur. But we never see any weaponry or devices like a small bomb, or any indication of just where he is heading. The killing of him looked WAY too much like Kirk kicking the Klingon captain to his dealth in ST: III.
11. The battle between the Enterprise and the Scimitar was poorly orchestrated. There are these long pauses that make no sense in real time, where the crew casually talks about alternatives. Knowing what the Scimitar is capable of, it would have continued firing until the Enteprise was completely disabled, right from the beginning. In a real battle situation like this, there aren't these "long moments of rest" where everyone can casually talk about the next steps. The pacing was all off, completely unrealistic. Also, from what we see of the Enterprise engaged in battle, it seems absurd that they would have run out of photon torpedos that quickly. The 1701-E is a battleship, not the more sedate exploratory oriented 1701-D. And yet the E seemed to perform no better than the D.
12. As the Enterprise approached the Bassen Rift, the other Starfleet vessels were 40 minutes away at their present course and speed. That is VERY close by. What, no hails upon the Scimitar attack? Certainly some of the Federation starships could have made it there in 15 minutes at high warp. But no... not even an attempt to hail them. It makes no sense.
13. Picard enters the control room where Shinzon is. He picks off everyone around him with his phaser rifle. Why not Shinzon? Given what he has done, I see ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for him to have any feelings for him. His destruction is essential for preserving the life of everyone around him, especially the inhabitants of planet Earth. Picard looks at the thalaron core and could have easily destroyed it. Afterall, he was on a self-sacrifice mission. Why didn't he fire his phaser rifle at it? Or, why not just kill Shinzon and then operate the controls to shutdown the thalaron deployment taking place? OK... so we get the dramatic ending. It's just Shinzon and Picard... and Picard dispatches him with a sharp pole. Then what? He just waits, looking at him with the countdown proceeding, while Shinzon gradually pulls himself closer to Picard? Ummm... remember Soran? Picard certainly acted in his best abilities to shutdown the missile that Soran was planning to launch. Where did that mindset go? It was so out of character for Picard. I couldn't stand that scene.
14. Thalaron radiation. The handling of this concept was highly flawed. I'm sorry, but a radioactive material has certain radiative properties that give it that designation. If you destroy a device containing thalaron, you have to expect it to be radiated outward. Everyone around the Scimitar should have died from thalaron radiation exposure when the ship exploded. Again... complete and utter nonsense.
15. Oh yes... remember the planetary diagram of Romulus and Remus? Anyone notice how dangerously close the planets were? Um, it wouldn't work in real space my friends. It was sheer lunacy to show two planets with paths so close together. The gravitational forces simply wouldn't allow it to exist.
I could go on... but I'm tired. And so deeply disappointed. Considering all these points together, Nemesis was a catastrophe. I can't believe that Berman produced such trash... wouldn't he have learned by now? What a sorry way to end the Next Generation movies. And it was certainly ended alright--no one would fund another TNG movie. There are some elements here and there that can be enjoyed, but overall the bad points heavily outweigh the good ones. I'm just glad I never bothered to buy the
movie.Oh... remember the scene with Riker and Deana getting all teary eyed from Picard's speech? Just pretend he's talking in remorse about how badly the movie ended up. Now THAT is a scene I can believe.
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