Is Janeway an example of the 'mother bitch woman in power' trope?

[Guy Gardener]

Q could have approached Katrhyn at an point in her entire life history to make his indecent proposal.

10... Hunters, 10 minutes after she found out that Mark had remarried.

09... Resolutions after she romanced the monkey, but before she let he Indian have a shot.

08... Night after she had been sitting in her room silently rocking back and forth for 3 months by herself like Howard Hughes on a good day.

07... Endgame when he has two Kathryn Janeways to fight it out for his attention.

06... Year of Hell just before the final battle after she has lost her entire crew and Voyager is falling down wreck and she's ready to kill herself.

05... Basics after they are marooned.

04... 11:59. Go back in time and get that Janeway determination from someone else in her family tree.

03... Q2. introduce Kathryn to her son that will never exist unless they don't do it later on in the episode.

02... Think Tank. Get into a bidding war with the Think Tank over who gets to save Voyager.

01... Threshold after she's become a salamander and lost all perspective and standards as to what constitutes boyfriend material.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

07... Endgame when he has two Kathryn Janeways to fight it out for his attention.

Absolutely 100% Admiral Janeway would have given him a whirl because she has now spent quite a lot of extra years wondering if she missed out on something spectacular. And she's going to die/not-exist anyway so why not.

 

[Catarina]

"I couldn't have a child with someone I didn't love-(pause: enter lizard babies music reference , "Remember me!") much less give it up to the continuum." Later: "That was it?!" Which is it Kathy? You did it once how about for Q peace and a ride to the beta quadrant. there no quick fix be a hero.

 

[Catarina]

Hmm, I'm thinking it's time for another Catarina's what if threads Poll "Who'd finger tap Q to get Voyager home?" seems awfully personal though ;-) And a given for a few which might not create much discussion.

Sorry, here's your thread back, OP.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How much power does Kathryn have?

150 people.

Enough firepower to destroy several planets.

Enough speed to run away from almost anymore.

In the Delta Quadrant where she is answerable to no one, that does seem like a lot of power.

Back in the Alpha quadrant, she'd almost be a no one. A face in the crowd. One of thousands of Starship Captains, and the Captain of a tiny ship at that, with small cargo bays and minuscule phaser arrays.

Between the whims of Starfleet Command, and the Federation Council, governors and world governments in her proximity, Kathryn would constantly be given orders she could not ignore by micromanagers to zig across the Federation hauling this and that while putting out fires and undertaking secret missions. She would probably be a tool of the greater good who is not allowed to think or wander.

Picards independence was from living in a mobile city that stayed away from the fancy parts of the Federation who might think that they are the boss of him.

 

[Catarina]

yeah, which is why I like them lost in the delta quadrant. I think I had a visceral reaction when Voy made home contact and they started ordering her around on a cheesy mission (friendship one)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Joe did not die for the sake of cheese!

 

[Catarina]

fortunately no. Cheese mission turned saved species.

 

[Catarina]

I wish they weren't so quick to under utilize him. After he was quietly cast off in the first season belanna looked all alone in her smarts doing all the major problem solving and the extras were her worker bees. seems borg-esque. Not nearly as interesting as a person to bounce ideas or fists at. Paris or Neelix should have gone. not favoring either, just both have a past it would be poignant and tragic and we the audience might not have seen a death coming.

we see Janeway's mood swings again but I liked her character jarring here. It goes back to how you can cling to principles until they are tested to the depths of your being.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Wait, you mean Roslin did things that if a male character did them would be applauded as badass? That is so SEXIST!

I don't see Janeway as a 'Mother bitch woman', or Roslin either. In a few episodes she went out to Ahab-land. The writers couldn't really figure out how to write Janeway as both powerful and compassionate at the same time. But that's not the trope, it's just bad writing.

Roslin certainly wasn't the trope. She's a compassionate woman who has to rise to the occasion to be tough. She doesn't randomly go back and forth, she's naturally one and rises to the occasion to be the other when it is logically necessary.

 

[Makarov]

Janeway didn't seem like that much of a mother bitch trope to me. She's usually not even that bitchy, she's like a stressed out manager out that drinks lots of coffee. Roslin on the other hand was a terrible character, ugh.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I fucking love Roslin. I've had that baby quote as my FB inspired quote section for years.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

My favorite Roslin moment is when she invites Adama and Cain to Colonial One to mediate their dispute, and talks up finding a way for everyone to get along, then as soon as Cain leaves she says "We have to kill her."

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I love that too. It's simply amazing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So what exactly is this trope about a woman in power?

I'm assuming that it's negative.

1. She will argue even with people who agree with her, just to assert her authority?

2. She will spin out, murder a lot of people and then need a valium?

3. She will assume that all men think that she cannot do the job so she will have them executed in their sleep?

4. She will scream and scream, no one will respect her and will eventually be replaced by a man as she is carried away sobbing?

5. She would rather see a blood bath than a compromise?

...

Found this...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennago...rful-women-christine-lagarde-hillary-clinton/

Meh?

You have to have a type A personality to be in charge. Boy or girl, if you don't, there are going to be deficits.

Type A's are assholes.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

A long time ago it was all about periods. Amazingly we have moved on from that. Such progress.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nature's lube.

 

[Makarov]

Here is my Roslin rant, feel free to skip it, major BSG spoilers:

Spoiler: roslin

They start her out with a cool cancer backstory. Then they literally cure cancer, just to have her on the show some more. Then they bring her cancer back, just to make her character back to it's roots I guess? Reset button to the extreme. She acts tough at times, then they have her randomly not kill Baltar when she had the chance, just to push the Baltar-reset button.

That said I wouldn't call Roslin part of a trope either, she was a very interesting leader especially in the early seasons.

 

[Catarina]

Thank you for the tag. I haven't seen BSG yet.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Spoiler: I WAS GOING TO WRITE THIS ALL OBLIQUELY AND STUFF BUT I LOVE NUBSG AND I WANT CATARINA TO HEAR NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL UNTIL SHE EMBRACES IT HERSELF

Well Makarov let me say that the coming and going and coming again of that particular disease is nothing unusual. The going served to highlight her desperation as I recall, wasn't it wrapped up in a religious deal?