You were supposed to bring balance to the Trek!
Is it time to put Star Trek to rest?
- Thread starter Dar70
- Start date
You understand that darker means only by comparison with the thing being compared to, right? The post you are quoting is in reply to a very specific thing being said. Where did I say that there weren't also light and light-hearted episodes?
I never said that DS9 was, on balance, only dark.
And I'll continue to state mine 'brah' in whatever threads I want. Trek is stronger now than it was when Voyager and Enterprise were airing. Will it reach the peak set by DS9 maybe, maybe not. What I can say for certain is that whatever comes next is not guaranteed to be to your liking or mine. So I choose to enjoy trek in the here and now instead of wistfully hoping that it will be more to my liking in the future....the thread has been running for 7 months brah. Never said I was gonna leave. Been posting here for 25 years. Again if you don't like that some people don't think current Trek is great and Trek needs a break and get threatened by That...its fine. But Im gonna continue to state my opinion and ask questions. Tell why you love it or why you think it needs to reach 2000 episodes and never ending films, instead of coming here triggered and using gatekeeper as a defense without giving me your opinion. Which I'm sure at this point you probably have none . Good day...
I will say that when that new trek happens, if I don't like it, I just won't watch it. Life is too short to complain about a tv show, when I can just switch the tv off.
So there is my opinion for you. Do with it what you will.
Except you never said 'darker' there. Just dark, multiple times.You understand that darker means only by comparison with the thing being compared to, right? The post you are quoting is in reply to a very specific thing being said. Where did I say that there weren't also light and light-hearted episodes?
And just to be clear, I was just adding that DS9 had the light episodes along with the dark ones you mentioned. Wasn't trying to say anything more than that.
See post #1,261.
That's not the post I was talking about. It was the one I quoted that I was referring to.
I'd put it differently. I believe on-screen graphical violence builds tolerance to violence in general. And there is pretty extensive research to back that up.
Now, some recent studies have contested the desensitization theory in video games but have not analyzed film and television. And those studies point towards a significant selection effect in video games: individuals who are already more violent tend to seek out violent video games. That confounder is far less pronounced in film and television, especially when we're talking about genres that aren't centered on violence. In my opinion, sci-fi in general and Star Trek in particular fall into that category.
So for passive viewing, the desensitization consensus still stands.
So, yes, the distinction between off-screen reference and on-screen graphical depiction matters. The latter normalizes violence in ways the former does not. And I believe it to be genuinely harmful from a societal perspective.
What is the percentage of Star Trek episodes without a single on-screen act of violence in them?
That was not the point of my message. My point was that newer series depict violent action more graphically.
Review Worf's killings over the years.
In fact set aside the Borg and ship-to-ship and there's very few kills in TNG at all.
The most graphic was perhaps the first one from season 1 (fall from height, it's not clear if the phaser was on stun or kill, but clearly health and safety needs to take the enterprise builders to task for that floor collapsing)
The one in Genesis was implied -- at first glance you might think his chest was ripped open.
Obviously the Merrick death in Conspiracy is a known controversial outlier for TNG.
After TNG they progressed some more. A couple of stabbings in Way of the Warrior, chopping a Drone's hand off and a stab in First Contact, neck snaps became common in the last couple of years of DS9, the trajectory was clear.
Then you have a 20+ year hiatus before Worf decides to pay the Ferengi a visit.
OK some DS9 style slash/stab which wouldn't be out of place in DS9, and we know the 25th century has a problem with photon shortage and drunk camera operators, so it's all very background
But it's not massively out there compared with what we've seen in films. But then you had the beheading
Far more graphic than Snapping Weyoun's neck.
In fact set aside the Borg and ship-to-ship and there's very few kills in TNG at all.
The most graphic was perhaps the first one from season 1 (fall from height, it's not clear if the phaser was on stun or kill, but clearly health and safety needs to take the enterprise builders to task for that floor collapsing)
The one in Genesis was implied -- at first glance you might think his chest was ripped open.
Obviously the Merrick death in Conspiracy is a known controversial outlier for TNG.
After TNG they progressed some more. A couple of stabbings in Way of the Warrior, chopping a Drone's hand off and a stab in First Contact, neck snaps became common in the last couple of years of DS9, the trajectory was clear.
Then you have a 20+ year hiatus before Worf decides to pay the Ferengi a visit.
OK some DS9 style slash/stab which wouldn't be out of place in DS9, and we know the 25th century has a problem with photon shortage and drunk camera operators, so it's all very background
But it's not massively out there compared with what we've seen in films. But then you had the beheading
Far more graphic than Snapping Weyoun's neck.
USS Defiant has entered the chat.
And TNG had "Best of Both Worlds", "Chain of Command", and "The Mind's Eye.". I never found the tone of DS9 significantly darker than TNG.
But that's me. Others felt differently. I just suspected some were influenced by more than just story tone. We've already mentioned the stationary station and The Sisko.
On the other hand, I can agree in retrospect it was a darker tone when you consider Dukat's arc, the Dominian War, Kai Winn, etc... They kept coming back to these antagonistic well.
That didn't answer my question.
Off screen is not something I find more acceptable because horrible things are still happening but we're spared the horrors of it so it's ok.
Yes, but mega-reset for all recurring characters. All pieces were back on the board as they were at the end of the episode, the two-parter, or, if you insist, the mini-arc if we count "Family" as an epilog or p3 to BOBW p1&2 (which is fair).
And maybe this is pointing to one of the fundamental differences: the serialization. In DS9, consequences stuck, characters developed and changed.
Good point.
Ziyal.
And you are welcome to do so. Glad you told me your thoughts. Which I don't necessarily agree with. I think Trek is at its lowest in terms of storytelling right now. Voyager and Enterprise came at a time when Trek was running for 25 solid years with something either being shown a t the time or in production. So it was a bit played out. I enjoyed both shows. Current Trek is not nearly as well written and has a lot of logic issues and just plain WTH were they thinking moments. Some of which are the worst in the entire franchise. There was some things in Voy and Ent that I didn't like but overall I think they are both good shows.
Didn't like Disco until FINALLY end of season 4 and season 5. I actually really enjoyed those episodes. Even though they were still in the 32nd century the show began to feel like Trek to me.
Picard?? First two seasons pretty bad. I liked some stuff but so much wasted opportunity. Season 3 loved it.
SNW?..liked much of the first season. But it quickly degenerated into complete silliness and totally retcons a bunch of stuff.
SFA??? Didn't care much for the first 5 episodes and continues the tradition of a lot of silliness and comedy.
I don't mind light-hearted stuff. But when it is heavy handed and more than 50% of a season. That's when they begin to lose me..
On a bright note. I thought episode 6 was an improvement over the first 5.
Will Trek ever get any better for me??? Probably not. Depends if they stay in the 32nd century. I always thought it was a mistake to go that far into the future.
But as it's looking I'm not so sure if Paramount is gonna dump too much more money into Trek after Academy. Maybe the occasional movie idk. But if they don't make much more after SFA I will be good with that.
I'm still hoping for an all new Reboot of Trek. No ties to any of the past shows/movies. They would not be beholden to continuity (not that the current shows respect it that much at this point) and can do whatever they want. I would not want it called an alternate universe or parallel etc.. Just a complete brand new start. Ground floor. It may end up being really good.
I bet this person exploded when Olmos was cast as Adama, hopefully literally.
Hopnestly, I try to adapt new things. But the recent ten years have been horrible when it comes to entertainment.
There hasn't been a great, popular new rock band for decades now. Guns n Roses were probably the last worldwide popular rock band.
The same for TV series and movies and you know, I've really tried to find something I like.
As for SFA, I was warned that it was horrible but I didn't think that it would be as horrible as it obviously is. What I have seen, It's not Star Trek, it's a freakshow and a parody of Star Trek.
It actually looks like some alternate universe story in which humanity continued its downward spiral since the 2010s and this is what we got some hundred yeras later.
The characters of Married With Children actually looks like normal people compared to the characters in SFA and Married With Children was actually funny, SFA isn't.
Starfleet Academy is and should be what we saw in episodes like The First Duty.
Series like TOS, TNG, DS9 and maybe certain episodes from VOYs early seasons might have higher quality when it comes to writing but NCIS is actually good and entertaining with likeable characters.
Comparing NCIS with Berman era Trek is actually a compliment. I know, I've been very critical to some things Berman and his gang did, especially when it comes to VOY but compared to what we have today, I rather prefer Berman Trek.
No need for you to apologize sine you are absolutely right!
My posts are moonotone and doom-laden (maybe I've been brainwashed by the doom-and gloom in all series of today and become like the characters in those series now) but they are monotone and doom-laden because this is how I expericence what I see on TV today.
And as I wrote before, I've actually tried to watch some of the new series and accept them for what they are. But it just doesn't work for me!
It's the same as with music for me. If it doesn't work, it doesnt.
I remember many years ago when an artist I liked came out with a solo album which I found horrible. For one week I tried to tell myself "this is a good record"!
But it didn't work and after a week I just gave up. Now it's gathering dust in my CD shelf.
And streaming is horrible. I've tried it on some occasions and most of what they have is crap and I don't want to pay extra for crap.
That's a thing I've also have noticed.
The doom-and-gloom series mostly has "bad lightning".
Compare those pictures, the upper one from TNG, the lower one from PIC.
Cindi Lauper? Oh, dear!
Her opinion is totally irrelevant in ths case.
I've never understiood what was so fascinating with her, so fascinating that she's the most famous Trek character after Kirk, Spock and Picard.
Maybe her clothes.
But even as a male like me who really like beautiful girls, it was simply too much.
I wonder if she had become that popular if they had dressed her up in a Starfleet uniform from the start
Not to mention that she was over-exposed, even more than the dog in the somewhatlightweigt and childish but actually watchable police series Hudson And Rex.
OK, some of my dislike may have something to do with her replacing a favorite of mine plus how she was over-exposed. But not only because of that, more because she more and less stole the show from the other characters who were supposed to be the heroes of the show.
But I must admit that I actually liked her in PIC. For some strange reason, it was like seing an old friend in a crowd of strangers which the former TNG characters had become for me in PIC.
As for your previous comment about TNG which I forgot to reply to:
Maybe that's because they were supposed to be humans in a better, more optimistic world, not the depressed, worried and angry humans we have today.
In which case I prefer the TNG humans.
Nice to see that we have the same opinion of Garak and Quark!
Two of my absolute favorites.
And you're right about Ben and Jake.
I like both TNG and VOY, especially the early VOY seasons.
But after gettig the opportunity to watch all of DS9 from start to finish, it has become my favorite.
It had some flaws but all shows has.
I’m just exploring the newer stuff (post Voyager) and the jury is out (my jury is out!), but I do have trouble with certain things, like the overemphasis on battle, excessive CGI, and way too many lights all over the place. All of that has its place, but its overuse gets in the way of the storytelling and character building. I miss the episodes that were just meant to explore an idea, or a character arc, where not a shot is fired, time spent in quieter pursuits that are not just a pause between fight scenes. But my survey is nowhere near complete, and I am finding things I do enjoy, such as the team that assembles in Picard. (Could stand that to be a little less hero-worshippy, but, oh, well, I can live with it.)I am beginning to think the franchise has nothing left to really offer. Well for me at least. Out of all the live action stuff over the last 7 or 8 years. Most of it has been pretty bland/bad to me. With maybe a season and a half of Disco, 1 season of SNW and 1 season of Picard. That I enjoyed to varying degrees.
Everything else I have not really enjoyed. Lower decks was just too inane for me. Only watched one ep of prodigy and they took it off streaming.
Lots of missteps imo the last 8 years. But it just seems like the franchise has run out of steam. I constantly find myself watching the older stuff or finding new scifi fantasy shows that offer something a bit different and unique. Or just plain watching more non scifi stuff now.
But after almost 50 years of some type of Trek in production almost every year (except maybe between Enterprise and the 2009 film) it's gotten pretty stale to me. There are almost 1000 episodes of Trek not to mention like 14 movies.
Many its just my age. Idk.....
But getting old doesn't explain why I love Star Wars Andor...
I would hope that at some point someone will realise that a little bit of the heart of Star Trek needs to be rekindled to differentiate it from other bang bang space operas, but again, I am saying that when I haven’t even watched a quarter of what there is. Perhaps I will find all of these concerns addressed already.
I don’t get why there were, what, five TNG movies and then a relaunch of Picard in his own series, but not a single (as far as I can tell) revisit of Captain Janeaway anywhere. Not one movie? (Knowing the all-seeing eye of the internet lies beneath my tapping fingers, I bothered to check and I see that she did appear in Prodigy and, briefly, in Nemesis.) Still, not enough! She gradually became my favourite captain, and over time, my favourite Star Trek character. I know there was a lot of opposition to her, so I suppose that may have something to do with it. Too bad.When we met Jeri Ryan at a convention recently, I said to her “A Captain Seven show is a no-brainer!”
She replied “I know, right!?”
So they need to get on that.
Why do you think it would be any different to the trek that you dislike?
How would it different from a new sci fi series
The late 80s and 90s were an optimistic time for humanity - the Cold War was ending, it was pre 9/11 and the pivot America did, and sci fi tv reflected that optimistic future - TNG moreso than the rest. A humanity which put the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the few
People aren’t like that. I’d like to blame it on social media and doom scrolling but the change set in way before then, arguably when America lost the war before firing a single shot.
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