It's an interesting point...and all I can think about is making it kind of like "The Right Stuff" but as a series, which honestly....if done well...would have been pretty cool.
Have you ever given up on a Trek series? If so, what was the last straw for you?
- Thread starter JonnyQuest037
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Unfortunately it has happened too many times.Seeing this clip from the VOY episode "Flashback" again on the BBS today reminded me that it played a big part in me giving up on watching VOY regularly:
The scripting of the scene STILL bugs the hell out of me. The "Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today" line is SO condescending and smug, and a pretty disrespectful thing to put into an episode celebrating the 30th Anniversary of Trek.
That, and me not liking the Sulu episode in general, made me realize that I wasn't really enjoying VOY very much and was mainly watching it because it had the words "Star Trek" in the title. I finally decided that two words being in the title was a pretty silly reason to watch a show I wasn't enjoying, so I stopped cold turkey.
(Later on, I went back and saw a lot of the VOY episodes I missed when they were airing late nights on H&I, and the show massively improved after Seven of Nine came on. So while VOY has definitely grown on me, but it's still not one of my favorites.)
So I started thinking about the other times I've gotten a bit fed up with Trek in the past & stopped watching:
I gave up on ENT somewhere in S3 as I just didn't find the 9/1 metaphor Xindi arc very interesting, or at the very least, not what I was looking for on a Trek series. But I soon came back for the more TOS-prequel-y S4, as that was more what I wanted from the show. So it was more a five-minute retirement than anything.
More recently, I decided to quit watching DSC at the end of S2. I found that both seasons 1 and 2 started out pretty strongly and had really disappointing endings, so the leap to the future of the 32nd Century seemed like a good jumping off point. Maybe I'll eventually come back to it.
And honestly, this 3rd season of SNW has been trying my patience. I just watched "Terrarium," the 9th episode of the season as I write this, and it's been lots of disappointing episodes with no really great ones (IMO). I'll probably stick it out until the very end of the series, though, since there's only 17 episodes left now.
What about you folks? Have you had a last straw with any Star Trek series that got you to stop watching?
(To clarify: I'm not looking for an encyclopedic litany of everything you've ever hated about any ST series here. That will become very dull to read very quickly. More some little thing that made you say, "...Yeah, I think I'm done here." I think that is much more interesting. And if you're discussing recent episodes of SNW, please remember to use SPOILER code!)
I stopped watching VOY in season 4 because Kes was dumped!
Two years later I decided to gibve it a new chance. So I started renting VHS tapes with the episodes from season 4 and 5 from a shop nearby the apartment where I lived then, absolutely legal, I must state.
I did that until I caught up with was aired on TV. Unfortunately, I became very insulted by a certain horrible episode in season 6 so I stopped watching the series. The only exception was the episode Endgame which I actually regret that I watched but I just had to see what would happen my old favorites in the last episode.
I stopped watching ENT after five episodes because I just didn't like it. I didn't like the idea of a retro series and how it was presented and I didn't like the characters.
I stopped watching DSC after five or six episodes because I found the whole series horrible. I didn't like the characters and I didn't like the Klingon Mutant Ninja Turtles.
I stpooed watching PIC after one season becaus ei found it boring and like watching a funeral. The worst thing was that I had some problems with cancelling a streaming service which I had paid for just to watch PIC but i managed to get out of that mess too.
I stppped watching SNW when all those TOS characters played by the "wrong actors" began to show up and cancelled a streaming service because ot that too.
However, I still love Star Trek!
Series like TOS, TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of VOY are simply awesome and I can still watch those series now and then, I'll never get tired of it!
I kind of admire your willingness to just say no lmao. Also I love your website, kes is super underrated.Unfortunately it has happened too many times.
I stopped watching VOY in season 4 because Kes was dumped!
Two years later I decided to gibve it a new chance. So I started renting VHS tapes with the episodes from season 4 and 5 from a shop nearby the apartment where I lived then, absolutely legal, I must state.
I did that until I caught up with was aired on TV. Unfortunately, I became very insulted by a certain horrible episode in season 6 so I stopped watching the series. The only exception was the episode Endgame which I actually regret that I watched but I just had to see what would happen my old favorites in the last episode.
I stopped watching ENT after five episodes because I just didn't like it. I didn't like the idea of a retro series and how it was presented and I didn't like the characters.
I stopped watching DSC after five or six episodes because I found the whole series horrible. I didn't like the characters and I didn't like the Klingon Mutant Ninja Turtles.
I stpooed watching PIC after one season becaus ei found it boring and like watching a funeral. The worst thing was that I had some problems with cancelling a streaming service which I had paid for just to watch PIC but i managed to get out of that mess too.
I stppped watching SNW when all those TOS characters played by the "wrong actors" began to show up and cancelled a streaming service because ot that too.
However, I still love Star Trek!
Series like TOS, TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of VOY are simply awesome and I can still watch those series now and then, I'll never get tired of it!
Just playing devil's advocate with Endgame - you've expressed previously a distaste for killing off characters and not giving them a chance to continue their storyUnfortunately it has happened too many times.
I stopped watching VOY in season 4 because Kes was dumped!
Two years later I decided to gibve it a new chance. So I started renting VHS tapes with the episodes from season 4 and 5 from a shop nearby the apartment where I lived then, absolutely legal, I must state.
I did that until I caught up with was aired on TV. Unfortunately, I became very insulted by a certain horrible episode in season 6 so I stopped watching the series. The only exception was the episode Endgame which I actually regret that I watched but I just had to see what would happen my old favorites in the last episode.
I stopped watching ENT after five episodes because I just didn't like it. I didn't like the idea of a retro series and how it was presented and I didn't like the characters.
I stopped watching DSC after five or six episodes because I found the whole series horrible. I didn't like the characters and I didn't like the Klingon Mutant Ninja Turtles.
I stpooed watching PIC after one season becaus ei found it boring and like watching a funeral. The worst thing was that I had some problems with cancelling a streaming service which I had paid for just to watch PIC but i managed to get out of that mess too.
I stppped watching SNW when all those TOS characters played by the "wrong actors" began to show up and cancelled a streaming service because ot that too.
However, I still love Star Trek!
Series like TOS, TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of VOY are simply awesome and I can still watch those series now and then, I'll never get tired of it!
I'll leave it open to debate over whether the overall execution of the story was done well but Timeline 1 Janeway going back to save Tuvok from suffering, to save 7s life (and as part of that both prevent Chakotay having to mourn her loss and also prevented them even getting together) and give them a happy ending must have some merit?
I very much agree. We wouldn't have to focus on our main characters at first even. Spend a few decades, spread over one season, on how Earth became united, UESPA/StarFleet/whatever was founded. Every now and then we see more of the ship being build during the last few episodes and the crew coming together. Then have season two about actually going out there.
Thanks for your nice comments and for your appreciation of the Kes Website!
Good comment! I will try to give a good reply here.
I have nothing against how Janeway was going back in time, saving Tuvok, saving Seven and that scenario.
What i didn't like is the overall scenario with all the messy time jumping. What I had wanted to see was something like a final showdown with Suspiria and a real welcoming home for the characters which we never got.
I would also have seen a decent Kes comeback which would have erased the damage made in that horrible season 6 episode and maybe a "happy end" between Janeway and Chakotay too.
You know what, fair shout and our differences on it come down more to what we "hoped" vs what they did.Thanks for your nice comments and for your appreciation of the Kes Website!
Good comment! I will try to give a good reply here.
I have nothing against how Janeway was going back in time, saving Tuvok, saving Seven and that scenario.
What i didn't like is the overall scenario with all the messy time jumping. What I had wanted to see was something like a final showdown with Suspiria and a real welcoming home for the characters which we never got.
I would also have seen a decent Kes comeback which would have erased the damage made in that horrible season 6 episode and maybe a "happy end" between Janeway and Chakotay too.
I fully get your wish to use it to bring back Suspiria and Kes - which could have been interesting (maybe keep the time travel element and bring back the Caretaker, Seska, Maje Culluh for a final episode too) - but for me I see that the Borg were the key antagonist for Janeway through season 4-7 and so while it may not have fully been earned (especially with how easily they could beat them by that point) finishing Janeway's story by taking down the Borg made some sense.
With your approach it would have been a great way to redeem "Fury" if they had brought Kes back one more time and been able to use what ground they had laid to then set up this final moment where the experience of that episode allowed Kes to reach her full potential, save them from Suspiria and get the happy ending.
Only thing I disagree on is J/C - not because I think you are wrong so much as their dynamic reminds me massively of me and my best friend from uni where there has always been a flirty tension but in a "best friends and we do it because it doesn't mean anything" way...hopefully I've explained that well.
Is this why the CODA series was written? I still miss that novelverse
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Exactly. The books have to be consistent with the source material, not the other way around.
The tail does not wag the dog.
Makes a ton of sense tbh. I remember reading some very old TOS novel from way before the whole TNG era was a thing. That was a really interesting lense into an alternate reality to the now well known Trek lore - way more old school sci-fi inspired.
I do wonder however - who checks your books? Is there a Trek canon-nerd on payroll checking for lore accuracy?
(And if so - is his job threatened by AI now?)
There is lots of oversight. First, there's the editors (and copyeditors) at S&S, plus every outline and manuscript and rewrite has to be run by CBS for their approval.
It's a very collaborative process.
Huh. Now I'm wondering what the novelverse would have done if it had flourished and evolved to the point where it was covering the time period of TNG but TNG itself had never come to exist. Basically, what the writers themselves would have done if they got to make up the 24th century Trekverse without having a series to guide them.
I never really liked The Borg.
Well, they were scary in Q Who and Best Of Both Worlds but with the appearance of Hugh and later on the Borg Queen, all the exciting with them was gone.
I was actually annoyed when they showed up on VOY and that was before Kes was dumped. Digging them up from the ruins of TNG was, as I see it lackof other constructive ideas for the series.
A final showdown with Suspiria would have been the logical conclusion of the Voyager story and an addition of Kes would have been a nice gesture to the fans of the character after insulting them with that horrible episode in season 6. Of course the character should have been restored in a final episode, not even more destroyed.
And of course, there should have been a real homecoming for the crew in the episode!
As for J/C, well personally I can actually live with it and I can live without it. But it would have been a nice gesture to a large and loyal group of VOY fans who wanted such a scenario.
But if that's true, why are important characters from the series killed off or destroyed in other ways in recent books, like Garak was in a recent novel?
Nothing in that book did make any sense since it turned garak into something he never was in the series.
I am close on SFA right now. The Nus Braka diatribe on "eating assholes" was a new low.
I dropped SFA after the fifth episode. Making it now the fifth Star Trek series I've dropped during first run.
What did it for me? It wasn't that I thought it was bad. It's that it made some choices I didn't agree with (I won't go into them), I came to the conclusion that I wasn't the audience for it and watching it didn't feel like a priority.
I'm a little disappointed that nothing directly spun off from Discovery has worked for me. But I gained a new insight. After more than 30 years, now I finally understand what it was like for TNG Fans who didn't connect with DS9, VOY and ENT.
It's frustrating when you have to quit a series due to creative differences, because it doesn't matter if the quality gets better or the tone changes if you can't stand the choices it's making.
I never understood why, in a word where comic book heroes (which admittedly began in the comics) are allowed to do their own various things across all media. How many versions of Batman did we have concurrently a few years ago? The Batman, Flash (with 2!), Gotham, the Arkham games and that's not even including the novels. And nobody was confused by it.
Yes, it's always been one that way for Trek. But just because that's the way it has been, does not mean it's the only possible way.
3, actually. ( And that's if you don't count the fourth. )
He doesn't count.
Picard was the first Star Trek series I gave up on. I was really positive on this streaming era when it first started, but I was really turned off by the resolution of Discovery's first season (let's take cannibal Hitler's advice and do a genocide on the Klingons!). But we got a "Kirk speech" from Burnham, and season two promised to be a rededication to the things I like about Star Trek... only to be more cannibal Hitler and more Section 31 and even bigger existential peril.
Then Picard started, and it was... the Federation sucks even more! And even BIGGER existential peril! And also the pacing is terrible because we only have enough story for a movie but we're gonna stretch it out for ten hours! I watched it all the way to the end and decided no more.
I don't remember why I watched Discovery season 3 after that. I think I was just too curious about the far future they were building. But that season's tearful goodbye to cannibal space Hitler (she ATE SARU!) made me roll my eyes so hard I'm surprised they didn't stay that way. And the final resolution to the mystery of the Burn... I don't hate it, at least it wasn't even BIGGERER existential peril, but it felt like an easy place to walk away.
From all of it, that time. I watched some Lower Decks when friends had it on, but for the most part, I just kinda figured I would retreat back to the stuff I already knew I liked (to various degrees) and Star Trek was otherwise over for me as an on-going concern.
It didn't last, though; something about the Starfleet Academy advertising made me curious enough to check it out. And I've been enjoying it! Cautiously, of course, but here I am.
But five years away is a lot more than I ever would have imagined for myself, given how much Star Trek meant to me when I was younger.
Then Picard started, and it was... the Federation sucks even more! And even BIGGER existential peril! And also the pacing is terrible because we only have enough story for a movie but we're gonna stretch it out for ten hours! I watched it all the way to the end and decided no more.
I don't remember why I watched Discovery season 3 after that. I think I was just too curious about the far future they were building. But that season's tearful goodbye to cannibal space Hitler (she ATE SARU!) made me roll my eyes so hard I'm surprised they didn't stay that way. And the final resolution to the mystery of the Burn... I don't hate it, at least it wasn't even BIGGERER existential peril, but it felt like an easy place to walk away.
From all of it, that time. I watched some Lower Decks when friends had it on, but for the most part, I just kinda figured I would retreat back to the stuff I already knew I liked (to various degrees) and Star Trek was otherwise over for me as an on-going concern.
It didn't last, though; something about the Starfleet Academy advertising made me curious enough to check it out. And I've been enjoying it! Cautiously, of course, but here I am.
But five years away is a lot more than I ever would have imagined for myself, given how much Star Trek meant to me when I was younger.
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