I Hate Myself
- Thread starter Admiral Shran
- Start date
As I said, there's rape cultures in Africa. Germaine Greer has just complained about the state of rape complaints in the UK, and even said rapists should be named and shamed on the internet, in the Daily Mail. There's places like Texas in the Western world. There's prostitution trafficking in Romania.
It doesn't take much brain strain to realise that I am reporting what I have seen and heard and experienced myself. And I've just stubbed my toe, too!!
It doesn't take much brain strain to realise that I am reporting what I have seen and heard and experienced myself. And I've just stubbed my toe, too!!
Not forgettable enough. I choose the name for the pun involving the Halloween character and the actor. I thought it would be funny to say that Michael Myers, the actor, scares me more than Michael Myers, the serial killer. Sadly, the truth is that his role in The Love Guru actually came across as much more freightening than the killer, at least for me.
True. I'm taking baby steps.
I'm still trying to talk to that waitress at the sports bar I always eat at. The last few times I've gone there she either hasn't been working or I didn't get her as a waitress.
When something does come from this situation, one way or the other, I'll of course let everyone know.
Hi Shran, I'm SOOO pleased to meet you. I was begining to think that I was the only person with this problem.
I'm 32 and never been on a date. The only thing that makes it worse is that I'm gay. People have this warped idea that it is so easy for gay men, but let me tell you it is actually harder. Gay men can be awful to you if you don't meet their beauty standards (which I don't). So even though I've been out since I was 15 I've never been with anyone. Everything you wrote reasonates with me. In fact I could have written it word for word.
Let me say this though...you have much less to fear from women than you think. I speak as a guy thats spent a lot of time around women. While they are by no means monolithic, women can be very forgiving of imperfections. Most that I've known have just wanted to find guys that will ultimately treat them with respect and that they can have fun with.
J
Jetfire
Guest
Next time you see her just walk up to her with a little bit of swagger and say; "Shorty can I get your number?"
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
What does "Shorty" really mean? I've heard it in a few pop songs, but don't really know.
But even with my ignorance I'm going to suggest not saying that.
I actually think you could talk to that waitress about women. Instead of trying to date her, bring up something about single women or so forth and then just mention that you don't have a girlfriend now and she'll offer suggestions and you kind of kill two birds with one stone in that you're chatting with a girl and chatting with her about dating and you may get a few good tips.
Absolute best case scenario is that she goes for you of course! But honestly, I do think talking to her about dating might be a good idea.
But even with my ignorance I'm going to suggest not saying that.
I actually think you could talk to that waitress about women. Instead of trying to date her, bring up something about single women or so forth and then just mention that you don't have a girlfriend now and she'll offer suggestions and you kind of kill two birds with one stone in that you're chatting with a girl and chatting with her about dating and you may get a few good tips.
Absolute best case scenario is that she goes for you of course! But honestly, I do think talking to her about dating might be a good idea.
J
Jetfire
Guest
A fine female.
[edit] If this waitress asks if she can get you anything...with confidence ask her if you can get her anything.
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Another 2 cents for what its worth (and I didn't read the whole thread, so this may repeat what has already been said). Stop thinking about women as some type of strange creatures - approach them as people. If you can go somewhere and strike up conversations with dudes you don't know, then you can talk to women. Don't put the pressure on yourself that every interaction with a female has to result in a relationship. Just talk to them like PEOPLE. Add to that the usual stuff - good hygiene, clean clothes, stay in some kind of shape (no you don't have to be Adonis, just look healthy), and it'll happen for you. Good luck.
^^That's good advice. I'd add that if you act like you're having a good time, it makes it a lot easier for whoever you're talking to to have a good time. It might be hard to pull off when you're feeling terrified inside, but after you do it for a while you get the hang of it, and then you really start feeling more confident.
Pretty much just think, "What would I want someone to say to me" if they were initiating the conversation, and you can't go wrong.
Making conversation with someone in a service industry is pretty easy. Start with something like, "pretty busy tonight" (or "pretty slow tonight") and just meander along, talking in general terms about the place or whatever's going on. If people want to talk more to you, they'll start offering up specifics and you can go from there.
In general, if you keep a pleasant smile on your face, it usually doesn't matter exactly what you say, just that you indicate a willingness to listen.
What Gotham Central said seems on the money, too.
Pretty much just think, "What would I want someone to say to me" if they were initiating the conversation, and you can't go wrong.
Making conversation with someone in a service industry is pretty easy. Start with something like, "pretty busy tonight" (or "pretty slow tonight") and just meander along, talking in general terms about the place or whatever's going on. If people want to talk more to you, they'll start offering up specifics and you can go from there.
In general, if you keep a pleasant smile on your face, it usually doesn't matter exactly what you say, just that you indicate a willingness to listen.
What Gotham Central said seems on the money, too.
OK, I'm not sure if anyone else has brought this up or not, but you're posting on a Trek board so you obviously like Star Trek (and maybe other SF?) ... have you ever attended a Trek or SF convention? It sounds lame, but there are a lot of people at cons who feel uncomfortable out in the world but are actually quite fun and social in a geek-friendly setting like an SF con. It's kind of like trying out the dating scene with training wheels. 
OK, there are a lot of losers and nerds too. But they exist in the real world as well. And at least at a convention, you know the girls won't laugh at you for being an SF fan.
FWIW, probably 75% of the romantic relationships in my life were guys I met at SF conventions ... and I've been married for 22 years to a guy I met at a convention. Some of my oldest and best married friends met their spouses at cons.
OK, there are a lot of losers and nerds too. But they exist in the real world as well. And at least at a convention, you know the girls won't laugh at you for being an SF fan.
FWIW, probably 75% of the romantic relationships in my life were guys I met at SF conventions ... and I've been married for 22 years to a guy I met at a convention. Some of my oldest and best married friends met their spouses at cons.
Well, life just keeps getting better and better. 
So, today was Friday and I actually had the day off from work, so I decided that I should do something with my Friday night instead of just sitting around and putzing around on the internet.
I decided to go to the local mall. When I got there I decided to give the bookstore a try - exciting, I know, but what am I going to do. They didn't have the book I was looking for, but that's not the important thing. What's important is that there was an attractive clerk working behind the register. I thought to myself - "Why don't I ask her if the store carries the book at all?" I spent about fifteen minutes wondering around the store while trying to work up the courage to do it. Of course, in the end I couldn't do it; I was just too scared. I ended up leaving the store without saying a thing.
So, I then decided to give another local bookstore a try - I still wanted the book. I found the book at this store. However, I then saw that the only clerk on duty was another attractive woman. So what did I do? I put the book back on the shelf and walked out, naturally.
I was too afraid to even talk to her in a simple commerical transaction. I mean for crying out loud, I'm not talking about proposing marriage to her. I'm not even talking about flirting with her. I couldn't even make eye contact with her or engage in the buying of a book at a bookstore with her as the clerk.
After that, I found that I needed to get gas in my car, so I stopped at the closest gas station. Yet again, there was an attractive clerk on duty. I went to the register with her male co-worker. Again, I was too afraid to talk to her even in that capacity.
Now I just got back from dinner at that sports bar I was talking about eariler. I actually got that waitress I wanted to try to talk to. I'll give you one guess as to what happened.
To top it all off, about a week ago I had a meeting with my psychologist. This time my mother accompanied me because I'm sick and tired of the few people in my life not knowing how deep my depression goes or how momumental my anxiety is. I figured my doctor could lay it all out more eloquently than I ever could. Two things resulted from that....
1.) The wonderful advice of - "Talk to women you don't find attractive and men. That will help you feel more comfortable."
That's like saying - "Oh, you want to learn how to play football? Well then, here's what you need to do. Go drive NASCAR cars, and in so doing you'll learn how to play football. And if you dare to say that that doesn't make any sense, then we'll be perfectly justified in saying that you simply don't want to try anything we suggest."
2.) My mother agreed to tell everyone else in the family to talk to me about my problems - that they have to start the conversations because I'm too afraid to do so. Well, I know that she told them. But, how many times do you think I've heard about it in the last week? If you guessed zero, you'd be right.
It's getting to the point where I simply don't know why I bother getting out of bed in the morning or trying at all.
So, today was Friday and I actually had the day off from work, so I decided that I should do something with my Friday night instead of just sitting around and putzing around on the internet.
I decided to go to the local mall. When I got there I decided to give the bookstore a try - exciting, I know, but what am I going to do. They didn't have the book I was looking for, but that's not the important thing. What's important is that there was an attractive clerk working behind the register. I thought to myself - "Why don't I ask her if the store carries the book at all?" I spent about fifteen minutes wondering around the store while trying to work up the courage to do it. Of course, in the end I couldn't do it; I was just too scared. I ended up leaving the store without saying a thing.
So, I then decided to give another local bookstore a try - I still wanted the book. I found the book at this store. However, I then saw that the only clerk on duty was another attractive woman. So what did I do? I put the book back on the shelf and walked out, naturally.
I was too afraid to even talk to her in a simple commerical transaction. I mean for crying out loud, I'm not talking about proposing marriage to her. I'm not even talking about flirting with her. I couldn't even make eye contact with her or engage in the buying of a book at a bookstore with her as the clerk.After that, I found that I needed to get gas in my car, so I stopped at the closest gas station. Yet again, there was an attractive clerk on duty. I went to the register with her male co-worker. Again, I was too afraid to talk to her even in that capacity.
Now I just got back from dinner at that sports bar I was talking about eariler. I actually got that waitress I wanted to try to talk to. I'll give you one guess as to what happened.
To top it all off, about a week ago I had a meeting with my psychologist. This time my mother accompanied me because I'm sick and tired of the few people in my life not knowing how deep my depression goes or how momumental my anxiety is. I figured my doctor could lay it all out more eloquently than I ever could. Two things resulted from that....
1.) The wonderful advice of - "Talk to women you don't find attractive and men. That will help you feel more comfortable."
That's like saying - "Oh, you want to learn how to play football? Well then, here's what you need to do. Go drive NASCAR cars, and in so doing you'll learn how to play football. And if you dare to say that that doesn't make any sense, then we'll be perfectly justified in saying that you simply don't want to try anything we suggest."2.) My mother agreed to tell everyone else in the family to talk to me about my problems - that they have to start the conversations because I'm too afraid to do so. Well, I know that she told them. But, how many times do you think I've heard about it in the last week? If you guessed zero, you'd be right.
It's getting to the point where I simply don't know why I bother getting out of bed in the morning or trying at all.
Is it the fear of something specific happening that keeps you from talking, or just an undefinable anxiety?
I'm not pretending that I can successfully solve your problem, but maybe answering questions about it and trying to pin it down might help you figure out a way to beat it.
Is there any chance you could take a part-time job or volunteering opp where you'd be forced to talk to everyone, including the occasional attractive woman?
I'm not pretending that I can successfully solve your problem, but maybe answering questions about it and trying to pin it down might help you figure out a way to beat it.
Is there any chance you could take a part-time job or volunteering opp where you'd be forced to talk to everyone, including the occasional attractive woman?
I think it's more of an undefinable anxiety/phobia. Though if you want me to be more specific, it might be fear of rejection, fear of the unknown, maybe even fear of success. I don't quite know.
And, I already have job where I have to interact with customers. I have to talk to attractive women in that area or I won't have a job. But any other time I'm completely unable to do so. Even then, I can only say what absolutely has to be said in order to get through the transaction and don't make any eye contact with them.
And, I already have job where I have to interact with customers. I have to talk to attractive women in that area or I won't have a job. But any other time I'm completely unable to do so. Even then, I can only say what absolutely has to be said in order to get through the transaction and don't make any eye contact with them.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I haven' read through this entire thread ... but are you on any anti-anxiety meds at all?
Don't let one bad day undo the progress you've made. Moods come and go, biorhythms go up and down. Try again next week.
And don't count on family for support, believe me. The most important part of this is learning to count on yourself.
And don't count on family for support, believe me. The most important part of this is learning to count on yourself.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
I'm sorry to say that it does sound (from the story up the page a bit about the bookstore and gas station) that your anxiety is not the kind that can be helped much by a bunch of us trying to give pointers on how to chat.
It's kind of like telling someone who's very overweight to just eat fruit and fish and run 10 miles a day...so easy to say but very hard to do.
Mike,
You will get scared if you start off with attractive women. Everyone does, apart from very good looking men. It's scary. I can't do it. I get nervous. I can talk to them generally though and be quite funny and make them laugh.
Once, I asked a very good looking girl out, and I imagined I was on a parachute jump. Where they shout 'Go, go, go!', as they run for the open sky at the end of the plane.
She already had a boyfriend.
They will have sympathy if you keep going, even if you are terrified, as long as you don't look pathetic and more importantly, self-pitying. Self pity is not an aphrodisiac. You need empathy for the twists and turns of their moods and you need street smarts, too. You need to prove you can handle yourself and look after them.
You can't get confidence pills yet. Imagine you're on a parachute jump. It's your shot.
Mike, you can't be descended from people with low confidence, from generations back, somebody,at some point, in your history, must have had some confidence, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
It's your shot and you may be too old, before long. But there again, older women have a bit more tolerance.
You will get scared if you start off with attractive women. Everyone does, apart from very good looking men. It's scary. I can't do it. I get nervous. I can talk to them generally though and be quite funny and make them laugh.
Once, I asked a very good looking girl out, and I imagined I was on a parachute jump. Where they shout 'Go, go, go!', as they run for the open sky at the end of the plane.
She already had a boyfriend.
They will have sympathy if you keep going, even if you are terrified, as long as you don't look pathetic and more importantly, self-pitying. Self pity is not an aphrodisiac. You need empathy for the twists and turns of their moods and you need street smarts, too. You need to prove you can handle yourself and look after them.
You can't get confidence pills yet. Imagine you're on a parachute jump. It's your shot.
Mike, you can't be descended from people with low confidence, from generations back, somebody,at some point, in your history, must have had some confidence, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
It's your shot and you may be too old, before long. But there again, older women have a bit more tolerance.
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The only advice I can think of is, they're people. Like you, like us. They go to the toilet, they get wind, they burp. They aren't goddesses on plinths. I can say this because I was like you, but only mildly so, that's how they seemed to me. I later found a lot of the excessively pretty ones weren't worth knowing, so wrapped up in themselves and what they'll be given But I know how crippling it was, and I deeply sympathise.
Not currently, but I have tried just about every one known to man. They haven't had any effect whatsoever.
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