I cannot stand Scotty/Uhura

[crohnie]

As I mentioned in another thread, a much better use of Uhura in this movie would have been to finally (in live action) give her a shot at the centre seat, by having her stay on the Enterprise, in command, and have Chekov co-pilot the shuttle during the raid on Nimbus City. This also would have saved us from the fan dance!

Nah...they just woulda had Chekov do the fan dance.

"Who wants to see my wessal?"

and slightly disturbed at the thought too.



IRT Scotty/Uhura, I thought it wasn't that serious because in the sickbay scene, she's clearly inebriated and Scotty didn't feel like taking advantage of her.

The pairing wasn't totally offensive to me, but still a little out of left field, like what most people here are thinking

 

[Grant]

Once again, I wouldn't trust your opinion.

If you think the rest of the movie is good, I wouldn't trust your opinion either, but who cares? Our opinions are just opinions.
If you do NOT think the rest of the movie is good, our opinions aren't different enough to worry about anyway.

???


I should have been more clear.......

If you think that the Uhura/Scott sickbay scene is 'average' for the movie----half better, half worse than I think you have terrible taste. It is clearly one of the worst scenes in the movie.

If you DO think it is one of the worse scenes then your logic is flawed because it then can't be "on the average no worse than the other hour and 42 minutes."

So if you think half the movie is worse than the sickbay scene-----I really wouldn't trust your opinion on trek.

If you think the movie is a total loss with no redeeming parts---you are in the minority.



Here was the last poll on TFF 45% give it 3 stars or better and only 20% think it is a total waste. That means nearly 80% think it has some good parts---surely parts far better than Uhura groping Scott at the point in the movie where the 'funny parts' should have been finished.


http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=51075&highlight=poll

 

[Red Ranger]

Well, most of TFF generally sucks, so it's not that horrible of a scence. Hell, I'm even a fan of the fan dance! Just be thankful they didn't leave Uhura in command -- that would've meant Chekov would've engaged in the little known Russian Cossack fan dance, patent pending! -- RR

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

Look, Grant, I thought parts of the film were okay, but I disliked most of it. I haven't seen the film since some time in the early 90's, so in order for me to determine whether the Uhura/Scott scene was the worst or one of the worst scenes, I would have to rewatch the movie. I am not really interested in doing that, okay?

 

[Grant]

^^
All of which means your opinion on whether the Scott/Uhura scene (the very subject of this thread) is useless.

You state it's on the average no worse than the rest, but in the opinion of most folks IT IS WORSE.

You haven't seen the film in years and are not interested in doing so, but interested enough to say a particular scene is 'about average' for the movie.

It's not. It's a low point. It was a scene forced on Shatner by hiring a 'gag writer' to 'funny up' the movie.

It hurts the flow of the second half (generally considered the better half) of the movie. it also bisects two of the better scenes of the movie......

Kirk's call for help and re-capture by sybok and
the 'secret pain' scene which is the best in the movie, arguably.

It just pathetic they decided to leave it in. They should have cut the head bump, sulu finding scott and especially the Uhura/Scott scene and the movie would have been a whole lot better. Okay?

 

[Maurice]

Grant, just accept that people might disagree with you. One doesn't have to see Howard the Duck again to remember it was crap when it came out, and and it's not a requirement that Argus Skyhawk have to review TFF to share an opinion about how the Scotty/Uhura thing rates relative to the rest of the movie.

For pete's sake...it's just an opinion, as is yours, and as these opinions aren't going to change anything, they are all "useless" by definition...i.e. they have no use.

 

[TenLubak]

I think its nice they are growing closer together as they grow older. They hook up so what. I do think it doesn't need to be in there tho. Doesn't matter Star Trek V is just 2 stars in my mind. Not one I'd recomend to someone whose never watched Trek. It was the first TOS movie I watched and i remembered as at 12 yr old thinkin how much better TNG 'new' trek was.

 

[Red Ranger]

^^^except without the 'head-banging 'atrocity' they'd would never be in the sickbay in the first place.

The movie would be better without both scenes.

There was a good poll a year or two back where they listed every 'objectionable' scene from TFF and whether it should be cut in a director's version.

Scott/Uhura in the sickbay was the least liked on any scene in the movie if i recall.

Even worse than the fan-dance and hitting the head.

How can we find old threads like that anyway?

Hey, I like the fan dance! It saved us from the Chekov Russian Cossack nude dance, after all! I think the reason people don't like the scene is because it's two older people showing affection for one another. Well, guess what, old people have sex, too, not just pretty young people! The head-banging scene does suck, though. -- RR

 

[Grant]

Grant, just accept that people might disagree with you. One doesn't have to see Howard the Duck again to remember it was crap when it came out, and and it's not a requirement that Argus Skyhawk have to review TFF to share an opinion about how the Scotty/Uhura thing rates relative to the rest of the movie.

For pete's sake...it's just an opinion, as is yours, and as these opinions aren't going to change anything, they are all "useless" by definition...i.e. they have no use.

Agreed.

But in the opinion of most fans, the Scott/Uhura stuff was way BELOW average for the movie.
That's all I want to say. It's just crazy to think that that out of left field, go nowhere, ridiculous last minute addition to the story was 'about average' for the movie in general.
It's way below average and stuff like that pulled the movie down from an 'average' trek movie with lots of good points (and a lot of unfufilled potential)-----to a clearly below par movie with lots of useless nonsense taking up a full 10 minutes of the story.
The other TOS Trek movies had silly bits and comic relief but held it to perhaps just under a minute ot two of silliness.

The OP made a good point in stating that this scene was ripe for exclusion and adds nothing to the movie.
That's how movies should be edited---"Does this scene/line add anything positive to the movie to the movie?"

Does it?
I and many others think not.
To say it's 'average for the movie' is just not true and i hope that can be disputed without meaning anyone's a jerk.

He may be a great guy and a great Trek fan but i think his opinion on this is off.

And I don't hate the scene cause they're 'old'----I just think it doesn't fit in the story.
I'm nearly as old as Uhura/Nichols was when the movie was made and I hope to be frisky for a long time to come.

 

[Greg Cox]

The Uhura/Scotty scene was definitely a WTF moment, but, honestly, it was the least of that movie's problems. TFF would still be dreadful even if that scene had never existed.

Then again, I haven't been able to force myself to sit through the entire movie for years.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

I don't see how a scene that bad can't be part of the movie's problems or be 'the least of them.'

The point is, that a whole lot of bad scenes add up to 'critical mass' that turns the movie into the mess it was.

Cut out the the head bump, the Scott-Uhura waste, the Sulu-Chekov 'lost', the ridiculous broken log device, the stuck doors, Kirk fighting the cat-lady, etc and you lose maybe ten minutes of the movie---but it would be a lot better movie and revamp the sub-par FX and add the 'Rockman' sequence (via CGI) at the end and you'd have a fun little, stand-alone adventure with some great 'big 3' character bits---not the disaster it is.

In other words do what editing should do--make the movie better.

 

[Greg Cox]

I don't see how a scene that bad can't be part of the movie's problems or be 'the least of them.'

I'm just saying the movie isn't a flop because, ohmigod, that Scotty/Uhura scene drove people away. The movie failed because of a muddled script, pacing problems, budget problems, and an inability to strike the right tone. (Not to mention the fact that they completely wasted David Warner.)

Nobody left the theater thinking, "Damn,that would have been a great movie except for that bit with Scotty and Uhura . . . ."

 

[CoveTom]

But in the opinion of most fans, the Scott/Uhura stuff was way BELOW average for the movie.

I would be interested in seeing the data you are using to make this statement. Can you please show me where a scientific survey of Star Trek fans has been taken to reach this conclusion?

If not, then the more accurate statement would be to say that it is your opinion that it is the opinion of most fans.

And I believe that's the point that's being made to you in this thread. Nothing you say regarding the quality of the Scotty/Uhura sickbay scene is fact. It is your opinion. Just as the other views presented here are opinions as well.

 

[Grant]

But in the opinion of most fans, the Scott/Uhura stuff was way BELOW average for the movie.

I would be interested in seeing the data you are using to make this statement. Can you please show me where a scientific survey of Star Trek fans has been taken to reach this conclusion?

If not, then the more accurate statement would be to say that it is your opinion that it is the opinion of most fans.

And I believe that's the point that's being made to you in this thread. Nothing you say regarding the quality of the Scotty/Uhura sickbay scene is fact. It is your opinion. Just as the other views presented here are opinions as well.

Of course this smarmy post is based on your belief that there isn't such data, but there was, in fact a poll a couple of years back on what scenes should be cut from TFF in a potential re-cut special edition.

The Scott/Uhura scene was rated at the highest percent people wanted cut of the six or seven scenes in the poll.

I tried looking up the poll but apparently, it is too far back.
I guess you can say that no such poll exists because you don't remember it.

But yes, from the comments posted informally and from the poll it is one of the least liked scenes from TFF. I don't have to carry around a print-out of the poll to make it so.

And Greg missed Scat's point completely......

Of course nobody came out thinking the Scott/Uhura scene 'ruined' the movie.

That scene and many others that should have been cut before the public ever saw them, help form a cumulative effect on people watching the movie and then thinking, "This is bad."
If they weren't in there they'd think is was 'okay' or 'average'----which in my mind is better than 'it sucks'---which large parts of it do.

 

[guardian]

Yes, that poll existed. I started it.

I forget which scene was the 'most hated', but I'm pretty sure it was the head bump and Scott & Uhura in the sickbay as the top two.

I think those two may have been the least liked because they add nothing to move the story along.

Even the fan dance (which I hate) at least is part of the story flow, in that they need the horses and she does it to distract/capture the scouting party.

Greg Cox mentions 'pacing problems' which I assume he means it moves too slow. (cetainly not that it is paced too fast!)
If slow pacing is a problem in his mind, wouldn't cutting needless scenes improve the pcae?

You don't need to waste a full 20 seconds on a portable log device malfunctioning do you? It makes no sense anyway because how is the log device part of the ships problems? It's freaking portable---it could have gone to any ship.

There's a decent movie in there being pulled dowm by all that crap. Maybe not a great one, but a decent one.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

It makes no sense to say every opinion is as valid as another.

If someone says, "The McCoy secret pain scene is the worst scene in Trek 5."--that's an opinion, but it's an asshole opinion.
It's just plain wrong by the standards of 99% of the folks who would see the movie.

And saying, "The Scott-Uhura scene is about average for the movie."--- is also wrong in most peoples mind. Because most fans think there are some good parts to Trek 5 and that scene in not one of the 'good parts'

I don't think the guys an asshole by the way, because his first post is clearly an offhand statement about the movie in general, but I just can't agree that half the movie is as bad as that one scene.

Because clearly mst of the scenes/lines people object to could be cut and still leave at least 90 minutes of movie left.

Are 53 minutes of Trek 5 as bad as the pointless, useless, unfunny, ill-timed Scott-Uhura scene?

I rather doubt most fans would say that.

 

[guardian]

Nerd that I am, I actually made a cut of TFF from a laserdisc and cut out every scene that 'most folks thought was bad:

Scott & Uhura flirting at the beginning
Sulu & Chekov lost
the extended goodnights at the camp
the log device
the fan dance
the cat fight
the silly bickering in the brig---"you see, you see"
the head bump
Sulu finding Scott
Scott & Uhura in the sickbay
'Wonderful muscles"

and a bunch of others......

It only removed about 12 minutes from the movie--leaving 94 or so.

So no, IMO---half the movie is not as bad as that Scott & Uhura in sickbay scene.

 

[CoveTom]

Of course this smarmy post is based on your belief that there isn't such data, but there was, in fact a poll a couple of years back on what scenes should be cut from TFF in a potential re-cut special edition.

I didn't ask for a poll. I asked for a scientific poll. Meaning one which used proper sampling methodology in order to reach a truly random sample of a cross section of the entire Trek fan base. That is the type of data I doubt exists.

I've no doubt that polls of one type or another have been taken here on TrekBBS, as well as elsewhere on the Internet. The results of such polls still cannot be said to factually reflect what a majority of fans think. First, no online poll is conducted scientifically to get an actual representative result. Results are based only on those who choose to participate. Second, TrekBBS is a wonderful place. But only a fraction of the people who visit an Internet forum actually post or participate in polls. And the total membership of TrekBBS, or any single online source, represents only a small fraction of all Star Trek fans out there.

My point is not to express an opinion one way or another on the value, or lack thereof, of the Scotty/Uhura scene. My point is simply that you are throwing our statements of opinion regarding that scene and insisting that they are facts, or at the very least opinions shared by the majority of Star Trek fans. And you are dismissing the opinions of others as a result. But I have yet to see any data which proves that what you are saying is more than a statement of opinion.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

We need a scientific poll to know that the Scott-Uhura scene sucks??

Yes, I'm still waiting on the comprehensive nationwide Zogby Poll on the question of.........

Is 'Plan 9 from Outer Space' a good movie?

Margin of error +/- 3%


By the way the question is not if it sucks---it is 'how much does it suck?'.

A LOT

How about an informal survey?

Someone please tell us if YOU LIKE the scene or if it adds anything positive to the movie.

"It's not that bad." is not the same as liking it. It is in fact damning by very faint praise.

 

[CoveTom]

^ No, that's missing the point. I agree that the Scotty/Uhura scene sucks too. I am just getting a bit tired of Grant's proclamations throughout this thread that his opinions are right, others' opinions are wrong, that the majority of fans agree with him, and that's just the facts. So I challenged that. If and when he can show me some evidence, it will be a fact. Otherwise, it's just an opinion. Perhaps the correct opinion, but an opinion none-the-less.