How 'Tuvix' should have ended

[Akiraprise]

I haven't seen the episode in a long time now, but my recollection is that I was left feeling that it was Kes's appeal to Janeway that swung the proverbial axe.

Agreed. I think it was Kes that tipped the odds against Tuvix. Janeway's no-win scenario for sure.

 

[Oddish]

Well, he did say that in the end and it seemingly made no difference (

Indeed. But at that point, Janeway had locked herself on course and gone to full speed like the freaking Titanic charging into an ocean of icebergs and come hell or high water, she was going to carry out her mission. Had the Doc reasoned with her when she was still wrestling with the issue, it's possible he could have convinced her. In the scenario I created where Tuvix lives, that's how it happened.

 

[at Quark's]

KES: Neelix! Tuvok! I'm so glad to have you both again! Remember, we had to kill Tuvix just to get you two back, so you'd better be grateful! Oh yeah, I'd almost forget: Neelix, I'm dumping you, and Tuvok, I won't be in need of your guidance anymore since I'll be leaving the ship shortly.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Indeed. But at that point, Janeway had locked herself on course and gone to full speed like the freaking Titanic charging into an ocean of icebergs and come hell or high water, she was going to carry out her mission. Had the Doc reasoned with her when she was still wrestling with the issue, it's possible he could have convinced her. In the scenario I created where Tuvix lives, that's how it happened.

Janeway was going to let it go, until Kes stormed her boudoir after dark with an 11th hour appeal.

 

[Oddish]

Janeway was going to let it go, until Kes stormed her boudoir after dark with an 11th hour appeal.

I think the captain was still wrestling with the dilemma when Kes stormed her boudoir. I think that discussion with a different person (someone with an ironclad sense of ethics, for example), could have pushed her the other way.

 

[Hawku]

I would have transporter-multiplied Tuvix about 400 times, then quantum-duplicated the ship and crewed it with all Tuvix's. Tuvixai?

 

[Oddish]

I would have transporter-multiplied Tuvix about 400 times, then quantum-duplicated the ship and crewed it with all Tuvix's. Tuvixai?

Why not make a few copies of everyone else while we're at it? Delta Quadrant is a dangerous place.

 

[Farscape One]

Why not make a few copies of everyone else while we're at it? Delta Quadrant is a dangerous place.

What's funny about this statement is that the ship and crew have been copied... TWICE.

 

[Ragitsu]

This is how the moral quandary known as "Tuvix" ends: not with a bang, but with a whimper.

 

[Oddish]

This is how the moral quandary known as "Tuvix" ends: not with a bang, but with a whimper.

It actually ends with Janeway brusquely welcoming Tuvok and Neelix back, then leaving the room in silence as a tidal wave of guilt smashes over her.

 

[Farscape One]

It actually ends with Janeway brusquely welcoming Tuvok and Neelix back, then leaving the room in silence as a tidal wave of guilt smashes over her.

Proof that Kate Mulgrew was an outstanding actress for Janeway.

Her entire body language and facial expression after the procedure was done... no dialogue was needed for someone with her abilities.

 

[STEPhon IT]

The story was terrible from the start, I thought the crew's positions should have been different where it was them, including the GOAT, to have Tuvix live while Tuvix wanted to die.

 

[Ragitsu]

It actually ends with Janeway brusquely welcoming Tuvok and Neelix back, then leaving the room in silence as a tidal wave of guilt smashes over her.

Were Tuvok and Neelix directly apprised of their ephemeral stand-in? Tuvok, yeah, he probably wore his stoicism to the nines, but Neelix might have expressed a touch of sorrow.

 

[Oddish]

I still maintain that it would have been a riot if Tuvok had promptly arrested Janeway for Tuvix's death.

 

[Sumire]

It’s interesting that the ending was changed so much, that it went from a foregone acceptance of his plight by Tuvix to a moral standoff. I do think it’s remembered due to that change but I can’t help but think, character-wise, it doesn’t strike me as very cohesive. I haven’t rewatched the episode in ages but isn’t it implied that Tuvix is a combination of Tuvok and Neelix in personality, strengths, knowledge etc as well as physicality? Tuvok who would stoically sacrifice himself for the good of the many and Neelix who would do anything for his friends and somehow, combined, they approached their separation not with resigned acceptance but panicked protestation.

 

[Ragitsu]

In that respect, the union clashed with Chakotay's observation?

 

[DonIago]

It’s interesting that the ending was changed so much, that it went from a foregone acceptance of his plight by Tuvix to a moral standoff. I do think it’s remembered due to that change but I can’t help but think, character-wise, it doesn’t strike me as very cohesive. I haven’t rewatched the episode in ages but isn’t it implied that Tuvix is a combination of Tuvok and Neelix in personality, strengths, knowledge etc as well as physicality? Tuvok who would stoically sacrifice himself for the good of the many and Neelix who would do anything for his friends and somehow, combined, they approached their separation not with resigned acceptance but panicked protestation.

Isn't this assuming that Tuvok and Neelix would essentially sanction the killing of someone else? Because Tuvix is more akin to their son, in that he's a fusion of them, than he is directly either one of them.

If anything, Tuvok might consider the sacrifice of himself worth it for Tuvix's continued existence, and Neelix might also consider the loss of himself worth it to bring a unique lifeform into existence.

Unfortunately, neither of them was in a position to be asked for their feelings on the matter.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Tuvix got a shit deal but I would have done the same thing if I was Janeway.

Indeed.

From a strictly utilitarian perspective, it's a simple choice between killing TWO people (Tuvok and Neelix) or only ONE person (Tuvix). Seems clear enough.

Edit: If Tuvok and Neelix are expected to sacrifice themselves so that Tuvix can live...why is Tuvix not expected to do the same so TWO people can live? Why does he get to survive and they don't?

 

[Ragitsu]

Cold arithmetic.

 

[Markonian]

Indeed.

From a strictly utilitarian perspective, it's a simple choice between killing TWO people (Tuvok and Neelix) or only ONE person (Tuvix). Seems clear enough.

Plus, the ship is alone in the Delta Quadrant, not somewhere cushy in the Federation. Voyager needs its tactical officer/security chief on the bridge, and its morale officer/chief chef in the galley.

Edit: Perhaps it would've been meaningful if Kes could've elogium'd Tuvix so that something of him remains.