I doubt it very much. If there are similar topics in other threads, then I made a mistake.
How to resolve 6 Voyager Inconsistencies in 85 seconds
- Thread starter Oddish
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I doubt it very much. If there are similar topics in other threads, then I made a mistake.
I honestly don't know if there any, and my internet searching abilities are pretty subpar. (My wife, however, is a total expert internet sleuth.)
I think it might be easier to do a separate thread for each series, as every show has some that can be fixed pretty quickly with a few seconds of dialogue. (Even DS9 has one that really stands out to me.)
Trying to capture them all in a General one runs the risk of massive overlap. Plus, not everyone has seen every show, so people who watch only 1, 2, or 3 shows only can look directly at the one they do watch and will be more likely to contribute.
I think it might be easier to do a separate thread for each series, as every show has some that can be fixed pretty quickly with a few seconds of dialogue. (Even DS9 has one that really stands out to me.)
Trying to capture them all in a General one runs the risk of massive overlap. Plus, not everyone has seen every show, so people who watch only 1, 2, or 3 shows only can look directly at the one they do watch and will be more likely to contribute.
Indeed. Each show has its own ups and downs, and certainly I have seen various issues with TOS, TNG and DS9 discussed around this board, and others for as long as I have discussed Trek online. Discussing in the appropriate forum saves some confusion, not that topic drift doesn't happen.
I found a sweetheart of an explanation in the commentary of an obnoxious but extremely funny YouTuber's review of "Caretaker", by a commentator named sirhenry. I have adapted it for this topic.
Regarding Janeway's decision to destroy the array...
The Maquis ship goes boom. Then, Tuvok speaks up...
TUVOK: "Captain, there is an armada of ten Kazon ships en route... ETA, 15 minutes."
JANEWAY: "Janeway to Mr. Carey... what have you discovered?"
CAREY: "Most of the circuits over here are fused, Captain. The Caretaker must have disabled the array after it died."
JANEWAY: "Can you affect repairs?"
CAREY: "We would need hours to do it, and probably even longer to figure out this technology."
JANEWAY: "Very well. Prepare for transport."
CHAKOTAY: "Captain, that array is our only way home."
JANEWAY: "We barely fought off two Kazon ships. Voyager can't take ten alone. Tuvok, we have tricobalt devices on board, do we not?"
Regarding Janeway's decision to destroy the array...
The Maquis ship goes boom. Then, Tuvok speaks up...
TUVOK: "Captain, there is an armada of ten Kazon ships en route... ETA, 15 minutes."
JANEWAY: "Janeway to Mr. Carey... what have you discovered?"
CAREY: "Most of the circuits over here are fused, Captain. The Caretaker must have disabled the array after it died."
JANEWAY: "Can you affect repairs?"
CAREY: "We would need hours to do it, and probably even longer to figure out this technology."
JANEWAY: "Very well. Prepare for transport."
CHAKOTAY: "Captain, that array is our only way home."
JANEWAY: "We barely fought off two Kazon ships. Voyager can't take ten alone. Tuvok, we have tricobalt devices on board, do we not?"
I can resolve 85 Voyager inconsistencies in 6 seconds.
"Computer, end Threshold program."
"Man, Reg, you've got a wild imagination! What's the next one?"
"Spirit Folk, Geordi."
"Sounds weird. What's after that?"
"Fury."
"Computer, end Threshold program."
"Man, Reg, you've got a wild imagination! What's the next one?"
"Spirit Folk, Geordi."
"Sounds weird. What's after that?"
"Fury."
It was established that Voyager's technology was said to be quite a bit ahead of the Kazon (and most species in that section of the galaxy - barring of course a few notable examples such as the Vidiians)?
You don't develop replication technology which is able to create matter from energy and then skimp on weapons and shielding (plus, with the onset of the Borg's recent attempts on the AQ, its likely VOY would have sported anti-Borg systems which were originally planned in TNG in BoBW, and then some).
In fairness though, a lot of the damage VOY took from its initial pull to the DQ was seemingly repaired by automation/self-repair while the crew was on the array and brought it back up to functional state - but not peak condition (if you recall, just before the crew was beamed to the Array, the ships lights were flickering and smoke was everywhere... but upon their return from the Array, the lights were no longer flickering and smoke has disssipated - to me this indicated that VOY does have self-repair which can affect most repairs and bring the ship back up to functional status, but for some/detailed repairs, crew involvement would likely still be needed).
Also, VOY was fighting a Kazon carrier ship which was a more powerful than your average smaller Kazon raider ship.
If the sensors indicated that the armada of 10 Kazon ships was comprised of say 5 carriers and 5 raiders, that would be a more detailed description - and still the odds would not be in favour of VOY (in peak condition, it should be able to lone 2 or 3 Kazon carrier ships with the raiders - as the raiders are fairly underpowered and can be shot down in a few phaser hits, but otherwise, 5 carriers would likely be an overkill).
I'd say to amend that last bit to something like this:
Indeed... I just wanted to illustrate the odds a bit more and define how many ships VOY could realistically take on in its pristine condition (and that it was of high value to the Kazon - somehow, VOY wasn't 'hunted' enough by the Kazon in the first 2 seasons if you ask me.... but, the only Kazon sects which knew about their technological edge were the initial sect they encountered on the Ocampa homeworld and then the Nistrim.
I don't know if the original sect would have advertised VOY's technological superiority too much because any sect powerful enough to go for VOY and winning would have gotten their hands on the technology and empowered themselves by quite a bit (like the Nistrim almost did when they took over the ship_.
VOY should be able to take on 3 Kazon carrier class ships on its own... but 4 would likely skew the odds in the kazon favor by a large %, and 5 would ensure victory for the Kazon.
That's why I said that taking on 5 raiders and 2 carriers would probably be possible.
Not necessarily. There's always the auto-destruct to prevent that. (If I recall correctly, it was made an explicit point in the Basics Kazon attack strategy they get that one disabled first - and this strategy wouldn't have been possible without Seska's information telling them where this secondary command processors were located). But in this early phase of Voyager, she hadn't changed loyalties yet.)
I don't think that Seska was particularly loyal to VOY crew.
She was a Cardassian spy after all.
And given what Seska told to Janeway and Chakotay when she was discovered as giving Kazon replication tech, its likely she had planned to swith sides since the very start (because Janeway made a unilateral decision to destroy the Arrayand destroyed their chance to go back to the AQ right then and there - so Seska's plan to betray the crew likely stretches out this early).
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^ probably she wasn't too loyal to begin with, but I still think she would have waited for a bit to see how Janeway would handle the Kazon after that first violent encounter. I think she only chose to switch sides when it became apparent Janeway really wasn't going to strike a deal with the Kazon and hold firm to 'Starfleet principles' about not manipulating the balance of power in your own favour.
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Seska was a realist, I think. She believed (as did a lot of others, I think) that Voyager's best chance of survival in the Delta Quadrant lay in establishing alliances. The Kazon had considerable numbers but relatively low level of tech, making them a natural fit for someone who gave no allegiance to the Prime Directive to reach out to.
Seska was loyal to her own self-interest. She wanted to get home. Starfleet being about exploration meant that a lot of effort was on exploring, which really isn't surprising, but also completely unfair to the Maquis who didn't sign up to be Starfleet officers, had no interest in exploration, and just wanted to go home. I think Seska was loyal in so far as it served her interests and her goals. Other than that she would identify the best way for her to get to her goals.
I wonder how Janeway would have dealt with someone that kept saying: 'sorry, I never signed up for a Starfleet mission and I refuse to conform to that hierarchy. I was a Maquis, yes, but there's no way I'm accepting a Starfleet position', but that wasn't doing things behind their backs otherwise.
That was one way a broader audience would have likely accepted Janeway better... show them how she solved trust and personnel issues with the Maquis crewmen. Instead of using Commander 'Yes Man' Chakotay as her proxy. I never saw how she earned that loyalty from them, particularly after seeing the empty cargo bay in "THE 37's".
There must be another universe where that cargo bay was filled with everyone except Harry Kim, who never wavered in his determination to get home to his parents and girlfriend. Faced with the prospect of 70 years with only Chakotay and Harry for company, Janeway would either have rescinded her permission for people to stay, or made a decision to send Harry off by himself while they joined the colony.
Chakotay did mention that the ship couldn't run with fewer than 100 people, and if "too many people decide to stay, we could all be stranded here."
I'm not saying a lot of people had to be there, but there should have been at least a few. Basically, it's why the ending of DS9's "PARADISE" is so unbelievable and sours the entire episode because of it. Same thing with "THE 37's".
(I know what the writers were going for... they were in it together to the end. And the sentiment might have made a bigger impact if the episode aired as intended and produced... the first season finale. Another case of UPN really screwing things up for VOYAGER.)
I'm not saying a lot of people had to be there, but there should have been at least a few. Basically, it's why the ending of DS9's "PARADISE" is so unbelievable and sours the entire episode because of it. Same thing with "THE 37's".
(I know what the writers were going for... they were in it together to the end. And the sentiment might have made a bigger impact if the episode aired as intended and produced... the first season finale. Another case of UPN really screwing things up for VOYAGER.)
With the degree of automation (and AI, and self-repair facilities etc) that should exist by the 24th century, I still have trouble believing that. But it's a narrative device I suppose.
You still need people to fix the machines and maintain the systems.
They still should have lost a few.
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