This thread seems as good a place for it as any.
Giving Kelvin another chance
- Thread starter Ricky
- Start date
Thanks! I'm still a newbie so I just didnt want to attract the *wrong* kind of moderator attention.
Nah, you're good. In a thread you started about deciding to rewatch the Kelvin movies, posting a review once you've done that seems only reasonable.
Oh, is it that point in the thread already where I pop by to complain about how stupid original Khan is?
Totally agree. I have said before, but I think a lot of people who watch these movies, miss what JJ was going for with the Kirk arc completely. Which is a shame, because it makes them so much more enjoyable. This arc is also why I love STID and it remains my most favorite Star Trek film, hands down.
*checks watch*Oh, is it that point in the thread already where I pop by to complain about how stupid original Khan is?
Right on time.
Good! I thought I was too late, but luckily, my pedantic complainer fan alarm went off. It's almost like a Spidey-Sense!
I hated 09 when I first watched it but then warmed up to it sometime a few years ago. Into Darkness I'd heard was bad so put off watching for a while but have come to appreciate more of it. Both of those films still have big flaws but for me I think every film apart from TWOK and TUC pretty much does. Beyond I was more excited for the new direction but I thought it was kind of bland. I've never been fond of this series Kirk's character arc. I don't think he should be a starship captain but more of like some special operative for Starfleet that goes out and solves problems. I have to really love his interactions with Pike and those two and their bar scenes are probably my favourites. All the actors were really cast well. I love all the characters, I just think the stories could have been tighter.
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Its funny; while it was the Kelvan movies that reinvigorated most people, it was finding TOS style fan-films that caught my eye, and STC in particular that brought me to the board and back to the fandom. The theatrical movies pissed me off at the time, and I lurked a bit enjoying the hate posts. I fell off originally at some point during the DS9/Voyager era, and missed Enterprise completely - not just franchise fatigue (I had been an obsessive child), of course, but growing up, getting out into the world, totally switching tracks in most ways.... its been a nice homecoming.
I was underwhelmed by ST09 when I first saw it, I just thought that it was ludicrous to have an Academy cadet promoted to captain in one movie. At the very least, they should have put a "4 years later" or something to show that he had actually progressed through the ranks, albeit quickly. I can almost buy promoting a lieutenant to captain in an emergency, but not a cadet or ensign. It just made it really, really hard for me to suspend my disbelief. Nero is a typical one-dimensional Trek villain. All that said, subsequent rewatches have made me change my mind somewhat. On first watch I gave it 2/5, now it's up at 3/5.
STID is my least favorite of the bunch. What little it had going for it was ruined for me by Harrison being Khan. I can't stand Montalban as Khan and Cumberbatch is almost worse. For me, TWOK is my least favorite Trek movie (give me NEM or even TUC any day!) with STID a close second. That arrogant, toxic masculinity shown by Montalban especially in Space Seed makes me physically sick. The constant scene mirrorings just annoy me. This was no better the second time around.
Beyond was fun. Finally the crew had gelled together properly and we saw more of the chemistry between characters that is a huge part of why TOS still works today.
STID is my least favorite of the bunch. What little it had going for it was ruined for me by Harrison being Khan. I can't stand Montalban as Khan and Cumberbatch is almost worse. For me, TWOK is my least favorite Trek movie (give me NEM or even TUC any day!) with STID a close second. That arrogant, toxic masculinity shown by Montalban especially in Space Seed makes me physically sick. The constant scene mirrorings just annoy me. This was no better the second time around.
Beyond was fun. Finally the crew had gelled together properly and we saw more of the chemistry between characters that is a huge part of why TOS still works today.
ST 09 probably would have benefited from one more review. Stupid writers' strike.
I disagree with much of your points (especially the fact that both Kirk and Uhura are lieutenants when they are on the Enterprise) but I agree on this. TWOK, for me, is a technically well put together film, but I cannot stand Khan as a villain.
The cast was one of the best things about the JJ Star Trek movies. I was surprised that the cast came across as engaging as they did. I had my doubts in the beginning, that some actors could credibly fill the shoes of the original TOS cast. I especially thought that Pine, Quinto and Saldana did very good portrayals (or versions) of Kirk, Spock and Uhura, respectively. I even liked the Spock/Uhura romance.
If that was the case about STID, I am curious if Spock's "KHAAAANNNN!!" scene was always part of the script, from the beginning, or if it was added after JJ or TPTB decided to go with Khan as the villain. Because if that scene had always been there from the outset, I can only imagine how awkward it would have been for Spock to have screamed "ERICKSONNNNN!!" or "HARRISONNNNNN!!"
Even though Spock's "KHAAAANNNN!!" was a ripoff from TWOK, at least the viewer would have been able to understand the context of the scene. But if Spock had shouted "ERICKSONNNNN!!" or "HARRISONNNNN!!", I don't know how it would have been perceived by viewers in that different context, not to mention how clunky it might have sounded.
In the script they filmed, Khan was always really Khan. It was just his cover name which was changed, from "John Erikson" to "John Harrison". Erickson was the name for the character which eventually became Khan from an early "Space Seed" concept, and the reason they changed it was because they thought fans would pick up on it and spoil the surprise. They did anyway.
There is further confusion because they shot some alternate takes, or perhaps used clever dubbing, of later individual scenes to show to the press, where Khan (who was by then revealed in the movie) was referred to has Harrison by the characters.
And now, there's two of us. Feels so good to leave behind such crippling loneliness.
...actually, it's not my least favourite Trek movie. That would be Insurrection. Still counts, though!
I'm here too!!!
* HUGS *
Have any of these alternative takes made their way into the public sphere? They'd undoubtedly be of interest to anyone wanting to make a Khan-free fan edit of the movie.....
Not that I'm aware of. The press were shown a version of the space jump scene with Harrison instead of Khan, and some other short scenes but I don't know which ones.Have any of these alternative takes made their way into the public sphere? They'd undoubtedly be of interest to anyone wanting to make a Khan-free fan edit of the movie.....
I didn't really like the 2009 film when it first came out. Not because of canon (I was very open to a reboot) but because of choices regarding how the characters were handled, the climax, and the idea of a cadet shooting up to captain really painted the film as being stupid. Ten years later, having revisited it a month or two ago, I can still enjoy parts of it and really like some of the direction by Abrams (though not all of it). I wish I could love it, but it just doesn't quite do it for me.
I initially liked STID a bit more because I felt it at least tried to do something interesting even if it didn't totally succeed. I liked that it addressed Kirk being promoted too early at the time, but in retrospect I now wish it had just moved further in time to show Kirk having gained experience. Him having to "prove" again his worth as a commander now feels like a waste of time. Now I can only enjoy this in an ironic sense because there's so much absurdity going on in this film.
I really liked BEYOND on first viewing. I thought it was refreshing to finally see Pine play a more experienced Kirk and not act like such a dudebro who turns into a horndog the instant he sees a female passing by "hey ladies, Jim Kirk". Idris Elba's character and his story is pretty undercooked, much like all other antagonists we've had for too long now. Overall, enjoyable.
I always looked forward to a Kelvin film, and I think it's too bad there won't be a fourth one.
I initially liked STID a bit more because I felt it at least tried to do something interesting even if it didn't totally succeed. I liked that it addressed Kirk being promoted too early at the time, but in retrospect I now wish it had just moved further in time to show Kirk having gained experience. Him having to "prove" again his worth as a commander now feels like a waste of time. Now I can only enjoy this in an ironic sense because there's so much absurdity going on in this film.
I really liked BEYOND on first viewing. I thought it was refreshing to finally see Pine play a more experienced Kirk and not act like such a dudebro who turns into a horndog the instant he sees a female passing by "hey ladies, Jim Kirk". Idris Elba's character and his story is pretty undercooked, much like all other antagonists we've had for too long now. Overall, enjoyable.
I always looked forward to a Kelvin film, and I think it's too bad there won't be a fourth one.
