Spoilers Game of Thrones - Season 7

[Reverend]

If Jon's siblings hadn't been killed, they would've been in front of him in the line of succession. Take a look at this family/marriage tree.

For those keeping track of the incest in these families, note that Ned's parents Rickard and Lyarra were cousins once-removed (they shared a great grandfather in common.) That might not seem quite so bad were it not for the fact Lyarra didn't have to change her last name when she got married...

^ But if Rhaegar's first marriage was annulled, that would have ended the entitlement of the children from that marriage to the throne. Jon/Aegon minor becomes heir.

Most likely yes. I think in this situation it'd be down to Rhaegar to name his heir designate, since while the annulment wouldn't retroactivly make the older children bastards or necessarily strip them of any claim to the throne, it would probably downgrade from from heir apparent to heir presumptive.

Just like how if Prince Charles had died as a child, Prince Andrew would've been next in line, rather than his big sister Princess Anne.

Quite true, but for the current generation, the rules have been changed.

 

[Mr Awe]

I loved the scene at the end, but we definitely needed something to join the dots between Sansa and Arya are at each other's throats to Sansa and Arya are on the same page.

Agreed. Although, we did get one small dot in between, or at least so it seems. Sansa sending Brienne down to Kings Landing contrary to Littlefinger's talk to her could be taken as a hint that something was in the works. I think adding the truncated Bran scene would've helped too.

 

[Mr Awe]

Good episode, but it left me wondering a few points.
How did Cersi and Euron know to set up his "departure" to the Iron Islands in advance? Even if they knew they'll be presented with a wight, they couldn't have known about the swimming part, which was Euron's catalyst\excuse to leave.

Yes, I thought that was odd too when thinking about it afterwards. Maybe he improvised and would've left for one reason or another? But, why even come up with a reason for him to leave. Why wouldn't Cersei just send him there before the meeting started. She knew the Gold Company needed a ride and was going to bring them over regardless of the undead situation. Just send Euron on his merry way and not even have the cretin at the meeting. She clearly wouldn't miss him!

 

[M.A.C.O.]

^ But if Rhaegar's first marriage was annulled, that would have ended the entitlement of the children from that marriage to the throne. Jon/Aegon minor becomes heir.

Also, while the Targaryen family went back on forth on princesses being entitled to inherit the throne (as oppose to becoming queen when they married a male relative), IIRC at the time of the Mad King there was male primogeniture, meaning that even if Rhaneys survived and her parents' marriage wasn't annulled, her brother's claim would overtake hers. Just like how if Prince Charles had died as a child, Prince Andrew would've been next in line, rather than his big sister Princess Anne.

Wow. Anullments kick children out of the heritance like that? Brutal. I thought children retained their status/title and surnames after an anullment.

I can't imagine the Martell's would liked or lived with the disgrace Rhaegar brought to their sister and her children.

 

[Nerys Myk]

For those keeping track of the incest in these families, note that Ned's parents Rickard and Lyarra were cousins once-removed (they shared a great grandfather in common.) That might not seem quite so bad were it not for the fact Lyarra didn't have to change her last name when she got married...

House Roosevelt?

 

[Vandervecken]

Unfortunately, he's not good at either job. The Battle of the Bastards proved him to be a terrible general. He would do better as a footsoldier or a noncom officer.

Have to agree with THAT. Strategic idiot, from standpoint of ruling or generaling. Bringing a dragon anywhere near the Night King (unless crafting a careful sneak attack to take the NK out, which IMO was the way to go from the moment Jon met Daenerys) was stupid beyond belief. He KNEW that they can make more front-line undead, even if he doesn't know that new White Walkers can be made.

 

[Starkers]

Yes, I thought that was odd too when thinking about it afterwards. Maybe he improvised and would've left for one reason or another? But, why even come up with a reason for him to leave. Why wouldn't Cersei just send him there before the meeting started. She knew the Gold Company needed a ride and was going to bring them over regardless of the undead situation. Just send Euron on his merry way and not even have the cretin at the meeting. She clearly wouldn't miss him!

Ah but this way Euron isn't a threat, so no need for a dragon to go strafe his fleet if he's just going home to the Iron Islands!

Wow. Anullments kick children out of the heritance like that? Brutal. I thought children retained their status/title and surnames after an anullment.

I can't imagine the Martell's would liked or lived with the disgrace Rhaegar brought to their sister and her children.

I suspect they could have become a focal point for people to rally around, same as any bastard could. I reckon even Gendry could gather some loyal Baratheon forces to him if he really fancied having a shot at the Iron Throne (and could prove Robert was his dad)

 

[The Nth Doctor]

House Roosevelt?

You beat me to it.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Wow. Anullments kick children out of the heritance like that? Brutal. I thought children retained their status/title and surnames after an anullment.

I can't imagine the Martell's would liked or lived with the disgrace Rhaegar brought to their sister and her children.

It's hard to say, because obviously we're dealing with a fictitious religion, fictitious legal system and fictitious political system. There are differences in how different countries and different religions treat the consequences of annulment of a marriage. It's also an unusual situation because many marriages are annulled due to lack of consummation, which generally means that they've produced no children. But I think that if Rhaegar was willing to throw his first marriage away, he'd probably view the offspring of that marriage as not being his legitimate heirs.

I suspect they could have become a focal point for people to rally around, same as any bastard could. I reckon even Gendry could gather some loyal Baratheon forces to him if he really fancied having a shot at the Iron Throne (and could prove Robert was his dad)

Absolutely. The Targareyn dynasty had a few instances of bastards/natural born children declaring themselves legitimate heirs and getting followings. It's also possible that they'd find an amenable maester or septon (I'm not sure who would be applicable) to legitimise Gendry, as was done with Ramsay Snow, when he became Bolton.

 

[dahj]

For those keeping track of the incest in these families, note that Ned's parents Rickard and Lyarra were cousins once-removed

Within the world and in the context of their relationship, the revelation of Jon and Dany's familial relationship shouldn't be treated as more than a curiosity by the commoners.

As for the people that surround them, they shouldn't have any issue with it either. They know they're the same age, they grew up continents apart in widely different circumstances and with no inkling that they were in any way related, so I don't think anyone should object.

If any conflict arises around them entering into a relationship, it should be political. It would be silly for the show to make the incest aspect of it an issue just because it's weird in the real world.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

Ah but this way Euron isn't a threat, so no need for a dragon to go strafe his fleet if he's just going home to the Iron Islands!

I think Cersei and Euron want the dragons to attack the fleet. That's why Cersei let Jaime leave instead of killing him. It was her plan all along to let him (eventually) sound the alarm. She has to know he's heading north to join Jon/Dany against the white walkers. He'll tell them about her plan, and she'll launch a dragon attack against a fleet Euron's outfitted with dragon killing giant crossbows.

As far as the wight is concerned, Cersei/Euron almost certainly knew they were bringing it with them, but they still weren't prepared for what it actually meant to see one in person, and it didn't really factor in at all to the overall strategy. Regardless of whatever a wight could or couldn't do, Cerei/Euron knew that Dany wanted at least a temporary truce, and they always intended to agree to one. What they needed was to buy Euron enough time to outfit the fleet and get it into open water, which a truce of any kind does.

The wight just provided theater for all sides of the meeting.

Jaime's naive when it comes to dealing with the Cersei's and Dany's of the world. What I imagine is that he thinks that by turning his back on his sister and joining the fight against the walkers, he may have some influence to save Cersei from herself (and hence their new child) if he loyally fights the common enemy with them now. He's already explicitly said that Cersei's plan is madness and will lead to their destruction no matter who wins.

That's totally ludicrous logic, but he's desperate. Logic seems to go out the window with him in what he's willing to do for Cersei.

 

[Reverend]

House Roosevelt?

Sorry, I'm afraid that one flew clear over my head.

I can't imagine the Martell's would liked or lived with the disgrace Rhaegar brought to their sister and her children.

Somehow I doubt they'd be in much of a position to cause too much of a fuss. Moot point of course, given the sequence of events. Though I suppose if one were to propose a scenario where word of Lyanna's "abduction" didn't reach Brandon on the road and we never get that episode at the Red Keep then maybe it's the Martells that raise their banners in rebellion? Difficult to predict.

If any conflict arises around them entering into a relationship, it should be political. It would be silly for the show to make the incest aspect of it an issue just because it's weird in the real world.

Given all the fuss made over even the rumour of Cersei and Jamie's relationship, I think it would be silly not to address it in some way.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm glad that Bran-Sansa scene was cut because there was no need for it. If people couldn't figure out that Bran, Sansa, and Arya had an on-screen chat, they were either being wilfully obtuse or just simply not paying attention.

Jeremy Podeswa has come out and explained something that quite frankly didn't actually need to be explained: Tyrion's thoughts as Jon and Dany consummated their relationship.

It was pretty easy to figure out the source of Tyrion's worry: knowledge that the two of them getting together further complicates what is already a very complicated situation as they work towards defeating the White Walkers... which is exactly what Podeswa says was going through Tyrion's head in that moment.

Also, there's no stigma in the world of Game of Thrones - or in our world, for that matter - when it comes to relationships/marriages between distant relations, or, by and large, between cousins of any generational lineage.

There's also no consensus, in either our world or the world of GoT, about the appropriateness of uncle/niece or aunt/nephew relationships/marriages. Such relationships/marriages were allowed in GoT in some cases but not others, and in some states/countries in our world but not others.

 

[Captain Shaw]

He should really also start checking on what Cersei's up to...

He's probably worried about what he would see.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Sorry, I'm afraid that one flew clear over my head.

President Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt were fifth cousins once removed and she didn't have to change her surname when they got married.

Given all the fuss made over even the rumour of Cersei and Jamie's relationship, I think it would be silly not to address it in some way.

I agree that it would be strange for no one to question Jon and Daenerys' relationship considering the controversy of Cersei and Jaime's relationship. Especially considering the reactions Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke have regarding it.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Yes, I thought that was odd too when thinking about it afterwards. Maybe he improvised and would've left for one reason or another? But, why even come up with a reason for him to leave. Why wouldn't Cersei just send him there before the meeting started. She knew the Gold Company needed a ride and was going to bring them over regardless of the undead situation. Just send Euron on his merry way and not even have the cretin at the meeting. She clearly wouldn't miss him!

Euron being absent is a potential tip to the enemy that something's up. Plus, Euron publically walking out has at least the potential to convince the enemy that he's broken his alliance with the Lannisters, putting them on the wrong foot strategically.

 

[dahj]

Given all the fuss made over even the rumour of Cersei and Jamie's relationship, I think it would be silly not to address it in some way.

The fuss there was that Cersei was married to Robert, and her children weren't his, therefore illegitimate heirs to the throne.

Jon/Dany isn't on the same level when it comes to cultural acceptability (Ned's parents were first cousins once removed, Tywin and Joanna Lannister were first cousins proper), those kinds of marriages are normal and acceptable for nobility, and even when it comes to the "moral" aspects of it it's a completely different situatuion, they aren't twins that grew up together, they're strangers who grew up continents apart.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

So how many incest pairings is that so far?


Rickard and Lyarra Stark: Cousins once-removed

Tywin and Joanna Lannister: First cousins

Jamie and Cersei Lannister: Siblings

House Targaryen is infamous for this practice and the problems that come along with it.

Aerys II (The Mad King) and Rhaella Targaryen: Siblings

Jon/Aegon VII and Daenerys - Aunt and Nephew

Craster and his daughters, including Gilly: REALLY ICKY, OOGIE, STUFF

Edit To Add---
Cersei and Lancel Lannister - Cousins

 

[Tom]

Also Cersei slept with her cousin if i recall.

 

[Mr Awe]

Euron being absent is a potential tip to the enemy that something's up. Plus, Euron publically walking out has at least the potential to convince the enemy that he's broken his alliance with the Lannisters, putting them on the wrong foot strategically.

Perhaps. But, it came off as uncharacteristically cowardly. IRL, it would raise more questions than him silently not being there. You'd be thinking, what's he up to?!