Spoilers Game of Thrones - Season 7

[Reverend]

Yeah, I understand why they were sent down there, but they didn't really serve much of a purpose during the proceedings. Their presence seemed more forced so the show could have all of these little reunions. Don't get me wrong, I loved the reunions, especially Brienne's confrontation with Jaime, but from a story perspective, it didn't make much sense for them to be there.

Well such is the nature of formalities. Negotiations really only require a handful of decision makers, but it's important for certain things to be seen and heard by more than just those few people and by extension, it's important to show one's allies respect by inviting them to come along to such an important meeting.

From a more practical standpoint, Jon has been away from the Northern court for some time (months at least) with Winterfell being left pretty much in the dark, so it's good for them to have a representative to 1) confirm everyone is behaving in good faith and 2) find out exactly what the bloody hell is going on.

 

[Mr Awe]

They dated in the past, it ended badly and supposedly it's in her contract that they don't share scenes or meet onset.

It's funny, when Bronn took Poderick with him, I thought the place was rigged to explode or something and he was just trying to save Pod before it happened! Didn't realize it was that type of thing (if it's true).

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well such is the nature of formalities. Negotiations really only require a handful of decision makers, but it's important for certain things to be seen and heard by more than just people and by extension, it's important to show one's allies respect by inviting them to come along to such an important meeting.

From a more practical standpoint, Jon has been away from the Northern court for some time (months at least) with Winterfell being left pretty much in the dark, so it's good for them to have a representative to 1) confirm everyone is behaving in good faith and 2) find out exactly what the bloody hell is going on.

Okay, that works for me, particularly the practical standpoint.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I like that way of looking at it. Having said that, Sansa fed Ramsay to his own dogs, albeit more by omission than commission, so I don't know that execution doesn't fit her.

I kind of get the impression that there may be the implied double-standard for how a ruling Lady of a major house should execute a guilty person, over a Lord of a similar major house.

They dated in the past, it ended badly and supposedly it's in her contract that they don't share scenes or meet onset.

AH! Got it, thank you. I was wondering what that was about. The concerned "looks" that the others gave as Bronn & Podd walked off made it all the more weird, almost like they saw evidence of a possible ambush, with a mercenary currently "loyal" to the queen, pulling out the nephew of the former queen's Headsman prior to a massacre. I was clearly reading too much into the scene, of course.

It's funny, when Bronn took Poderick with him, I thought the place was rigged to explode or something and he was just trying to save Pod before it happened! Didn't realize it was that type of thing (if it's true).

Damn - ninja'd! Glad I'm not the only one who thought that scene was odd.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yeah, I understand why they were sent down there, but they didn't really serve much of a purpose during the proceedings. Their presence seemed more forced so the show could have all of these little reunions. Don't get me wrong, I loved the reunions, especially Brienne's confrontation with Jaime, but from a story perspective, it didn't make much sense for them to be there.

As I mentioned earlier, for me at least, the real plot reason was so that Brienne could have that chat with Jaime. I'm sure it was one of the factors in his mind when he finally decided to leave Cersei. Fuck loyalty!

 

[FPAlpha]

Now that is how you do a season finale!

The meeting at the Dragon Pit was so full of undertones, animosity and moves/countermoves that i could not look away. The episode started out pretty lighthearted.. Bronn is the secret hero of the show, doesn't give a fuck about anyone (or so he wants everyone to think).

I loved the walk and talk towards the Pit when years worth of show events form a true bond and history between all the characters.. it was perhaps my favorite because now that we're nearing the end the show can look back and these characters meeting actually means something and their words are not empty.. best of all was the grudging respect (and maybe budding friendship) between Brienne and the Hound. They both wanted to protect Arya and cicrumstances pitted them against each other.. that is a very unlikely bond that formed there but i believe a strong one because they see each other as equals.

Who thought Cersei never wanted to stay true to her word please raise your hand.. she's become predictable in her treachery but at least it finally snapped Jaime out of it and he left. I doubt he'll be able to convince the Lannister army to join him, given that he's not wearing his usual full commander gear but at least he will stay true to his word and travel north to fight. Jesus, who would have thought that i would smile at a character who attempted to murder a boy, at least wound his father in single combat to satisfy his ego, who enabled his crazy sister time and time again and who didn't have a problem organizing the Red Wedding (or at least being the benefactor of it).
This is why i love GoT.. some of the characters are truly complex and few are downright black and white which makes it so fascinating to watch.

Who else caught the little smile of Sansa at the beginning of her conversation with Littlefinger.. it's this small "I got you Dickhead!" reaction where i knew Littlefinger is done and my theory was correct (though it played out a bit differently by used Deus Ex Machina Bran to get a "evidence"), It played out brilliantly and once the decision has been made no more babble and discussion.. just a quick cut across the throat. Man, Arya sure doesn't mess around. I got a heavy chest when they talked later on reminiscing about Ned, who they are and what makes them different yet one family.. it is sad to see what they had to endure up until this point but they're a family again.

The second biggest hammer was that they finally spelled it out.. Jon Snow was never a bastard but actually the one person with the rightful claim to the Iron Throne, an even stronger claim than Dany's. What will that mean once they learn of this?
Politically i don't think anything at all.. Jon never wanted to be a King, he had this title pushed on him and it was the easiest way to gather enough forces to defend the North. He was never ambitious like Dany or Littlefinger, it just happened because he is a battlefield leader and during these times that makes you an even greater figure of respect.
When that topic comes up i fully expect him to step aside and let Dany have the Throne.. that is her goal and he believes in her because he knows that ultimately they want the same. Now being aunt and nephew and doing the nasty.. THAT might be one hell of an awkward topic and i look forward to seeing this conversation happen
However what was that with Tyrion staring at their closed door? We know he likes her and respects her but is that jealousy or disappointment that it isn't him behind the door? That i couldn't figure out.

The biggest hammer was the Night King tearing down the Wall.. while it was expected and had to happen it still was an amazing scene, especially with Zombie Viserion lighting the Wall up (how much continious Dragonfire can they spit out before they have to "refill"? That was one long autofire mode..

So where does this leave everybody? Actually.. nothing has changed on the strategic scale. Cersei won't join the war effort which leaves the coalition forces still undermanned when compared to the Night King (who now has a Zombie Dragon). Cersei is moving up an even larger force up so once it arrives she will steamroll the South and take over just as Dany has predicted.
Meanwhile i think Winterfell is fucked.. it is the first major settlement on the way to the South. Fortunately the Night King moves slowly so it may give the other armies time to redeploy North and o fear Winterfell may become the first serious battleground.

 

[Mr Awe]

FPAlpha, great review!

A couple of thoughts. Yes, Cersei double-crossing the truce was 100% predictable. I knew she was going to do something, but I wasn't sure what exactly. I did figure that learning the truth about the undead wasn't going to make her more sympathetic to their cause or want to help. I thought she was going to do something to take a large chunk out of Dany's forces while they were clustered around Kings Landing. But, instead, she found a way to bring in her own new army. That makes sense because she wants Dany to at least reduce the undead forces to manageable size.

I don't see Dany being Queen, or at least not for long. It seems like that's the way things are heading but I don't think it'll be so simple. At the end, I think it will be the living vs the dead that goes beyond houses and oaths. I think the wheel that Tyrion discusses in the previous episode will be smashed by the conflict. The monarchy structure will be gone. I'm guessing the point of making it so that Jon is the true heir is that he'd be willing to abdicate for some form of democracy. That would be true to his character, but not Dany's. Just guessing though.

Ultimately, Cersei's strategy is fucked for the reasons Jaime stated, but then again she's not the military strategist that Jaime is. Her strategy requires a very narrow range of outcomes for it to be successful. If the WWs win, they're fucked because they'll have the entire Dany's forces plus the population of the north marching against them as the undead. Cersei needs Dany to win but just barely. The undead need to be defeated but at such a cost to Dany that she can't mount an attack against Cersei. That's a very narrow path.

 

[Sophie74656]

I really thought Jamie was done for. I was sure Cersei was about to have him killed just before he left.

Would two dragons be able to take out the dead army? If fire can kill them, would the dragons be enough to take out the army? Assuming you can give them some kind of armor to protect them from those spears.

 

[Gary7]

Jon Snow doesn't want to be king... and that makes him an ideal choice to be king. I think when Dany understands the circumstances, she'll encourage him. And then marry him. Screw familial ties.

 

[FPAlpha]

Thank you (It's just my thoughts blurting out)

Concerning Cersei one has to remember the Prophecy that she will die by the hand of her younger brother. Since she is the oldest child that leaves Tyrion and Jaime of course but either of them must realize that she is risking the survival of Westeros if she remains in charge, Jaime much more so since he has the most direct contact with her.

So i expect one of them to add the title of Kinslayer/Queenslayer to their resume, reluctant or not much like Jaime who broke his vow for the sake of everybody. Imagine the scene if it is Jaime who has to kill her AND his unborn child to save all of Westeros.. that is perhaps the biggest pill to swallow in the entire story

I really thought Jamie was done for. I was sure Cersei was about to have him killed just before he left.

Would two dragons be able to take out the dead army? If fire can kill them, would the dragons be enough to take out the army? Assuming you can give them some kind of armor to protect them from those spears.

Don't forget the Night King and his Dragon.. while it is a 2:1 advantage the Night King might still have an ace up his sleeve (at least he can start chucking Ice Spears at the other Dragons).

 

[Gary7]

Ultimately, Cersei's strategy is fucked for the reasons Jaime stated, but then again she's not the military strategist that Jaime is. Her strategy requires a very narrow range of outcomes for it to be successful. If the WWs win, they're fucked because they'll have the entire Dany's forces plus the population of the north marching against them as the undead. Cersei needs Dany to win but just barely. The undead need to be defeated but at such a cost to Dany that she can't mount an attack against Cersei. That's a very narrow path.

I see Cersei as a raging megalomaniac where blood is not thicker than water and she will betray anyone to get what she wants (sounds familiar, e.g. present US politics). The only person who won't abandon her is her Frankenstein's monster guard.

It's going to be a painful wait for season 8... which may be as far out as 2019!!

 

[Gary7]

Thank you (It's just my thoughts blurting out)

Concerning Cersei one has to remember the Prophecy that she will die by the hand of her younger brother. Since she is the oldest child that leaves Tyrion and Jaime of course but either of them must realize that she is risking the survival of Westeros if she remains in charge, Jaime much more so since he has the most direct contact with her.

So i expect one of them to add the title of Kinslayer/Queenslayer to their resume, reluctant or not much like Jaime who broke his vow for the sake of everybody. Imagine the scene if it is Jaime who has to kill her AND his unborn child to save all of Westeros.. that is perhaps the biggest pill to swallow in the entire story.

I see Jaime doing it. He needs to redeem himself for what he has done.

Don't forget the Night King and his Dragon.. while it is a 2:1 advantage the Night King might still have an ace up his sleeve (at least he can start chucking Ice Spears at the other Dragons).

The Night King must be defeated... given how there are going to be spin-offs. How is the big question. Will it be done by episode 4 so we get a couple of "aftermath" episodes before the series closes? I hope so! The character development has been so rich... need to see relationships clarified and personal ambitions realized.

HBO in May 2017 commissioned five screenwriters – Max Borenstein, Jane Goldman, Brian Helgeland, Carly Wray and a fifth yet to be announced writer – to develop individual spin-offs of Game of Thrones. All of the writers are to be working individually with George R. R. Martin.[293] Martin said that all the concepts under discussion are prequels, and some may be set outside Westeros. He also ruled out Robert's Rebellion (the overthrow of Daenerys's father by Robert Baratheon) as a possible idea.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

However what was that with Tyrion staring at their closed door? We know he likes her and respects her but is that jealousy or disappointment that it isn't him behind the door? That i couldn't figure out.

Yeah, that was weird. If anyone, it should've been Jorah lingering outside the door even if he knows he doesn't have a chance.

 

[FPAlpha]

The Night King must be defeated... given how there are going to be spin-offs. How is the big question. Will it be done by episode 4 so we get a couple of "aftermath" episodes before the series closes? I hope so! The character development has been so rich... need to see relationships clarified and personal ambitions realized.

I doub't it'll be as "mundane" as a simple action scene with Dany's Dragons ganging up on him, i think it will be on a much broader scope involving Bran going fully mental attacking him from the magical realm while Azhor Ahai (either Jon or Dany or someone else entirely) attacks him in the physical realm.

This being GoT i really hope it will still have a big twist, we know so little about the Night King and there is so much mystery left that you could fly a dragon through these gaps. I hope there will be more to discover about the White Walkers than just simply being "I must kill all living beings", that's too simple.

 

[Mr Awe]

I see Jaime doing it. He needs to redeem himself for what he has done.

The Night King must be defeated... given how there are going to be spin-offs. .

Geez, I wish the the spinoffs weren't all prequels.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, that was weird. If anyone, it should've been Jorah lingering outside the door even if he knows he doesn't have a chance.

I think it was contemplation of the larger implications. He did try and talk to her about the succession once already after all. Plus no doubt this has the potential to cause larger problems down the line.
From a political standpoint, Daenerys has already said she's willing to marry to seal a political alliance if need be (hence leaving lover boy back in Essos.) A relationship with Jon may seem like a good way to strengthen that pact, but really speaking that pact is already pretty strong and the marriage card is one best saved for where they're currently weaker.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I have no doubt that she'll try to double cross everyone somehow, but whatever plan Cersei told Jamie cannot be her REAL plan. She's not that dumb. If it was her plan, she cannot let him walk out alive:

• She's not going to reveal everything like some Bond villian, then just let Jamie ride out to tell Jon Snow or Dany everything.
  
• She already doesn't trust Jamie's allegiance. She thinks Jamie betrayed her by meeting with Tyrion... a meeting Bronn set up without his knowledge, so that's just silly unless she's blaming him for letting Tyrion walk away... but I digress. She doesn't trust him completely.
• She's doesn't love him THAT much. Her priorities are 1) Being Queen, 2) Her child, 3) Vengeance against Tyrion for what she views as his part in the death of her sons, and maybe Jamie is a very distant #4. Letting him live with knowledge of her real plans only hurts her position for all 3 of those other priorities.

She wanted Jamie to get the word out, and while bringing the Golden Company over from Essos may be part of her plan, there's a twist we as yet know nothing about.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Don't forget she included Myrcella's death as Tyrion's responsibility for having shipped her off to Dorne in the first place. I listened carefully to what Cersei was saying, and it would appear that she didn't include Joffrey in the list, she only mentioned Myrcella and Tommen and, of course, their father. Seems she now finally believes that Olena was the one that clipped Joff.

 

[Gary7]

I doub't it'll be as "mundane" as a simple action scene with Dany's Dragons ganging up on him, i think it will be on a much broader scope involving Bran going fully mental attacking him from the magical realm while Azhor Ahai (either Jon or Dany or someone else entirely) attacks him in the physical realm.

This being GoT i really hope it will still have a big twist, we know so little about the Night King and there is so much mystery left that you could fly a dragon through these gaps. I hope there will be more to discover about the White Walkers than just simply being "I must kill all living beings", that's too simple.

Wouldn't it be wild if Melisandre makes an appearance and while Bran has the Night King distracted, she casts some insane spell that somehow restores the Night King back to his human self, undoing that magic of the Children of the Forest. The First Man ends up with no memory and looks around like WTF? And then suddenly all of the wights crumble to dust while his White Walker leaders are returned to human form

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Wouldn't it be wild if Melisandre makes an appearance and while Bran has the Night King distracted, she casts some insane spell that somehow restores the Night King back to his human self, undoing that magic of the Children of the Forest. The First Man ends up with no memory and looks around like WTF? And then suddenly all of the wights crumble to dust while his White Walker leaders are returned to human form

Gods, that would be the worst ending ever. I would prefer complete annihilation by the White Walkers.