Spoilers Game of Thrones - Season 7

[Reverend]

For those wondering why everyone didn't have dragonglass weapons: it's easy to miss in the episode but it appears they did, as you can see here.
Now that I see it in this context I do recall The Hound dropping the hammer at one point and pulling out a small weapon of some sort, we just never got a good look at it. I suspect that the spears the wildling redshirts had were probably tipped with dragonglass too.

 

[137th Gebirg]

So...more compressed time, re-spawning companion red shirts, FTL ravens and dragons, magical battleship chains that appear out of nowhere and Gendry is an Olympic marathon runner...who knew?

The flaming swords were a really good touch - definitely had a lightsaber vibe to them. The screeching sound the Berric's made when he put it out in the snow was really cool (I enjoy small details like that for some odd reason). Both my wife and I were in full-on "holy shit" mode when the dragon was revived. Too her credit, she actually predicted that they might dredge it up when it went down beneath the ice. Was astonished when they actually did - although, my initial reaction to the chains was "WTF"?!? I've seen a lot of explanations here as to why this might have happened, with the NK being a greenseer himself, predicting this, getting the chains either made or linking them together from various old castle drawbridges north of the Wall and such. Too much is left for the casual viewer to piece together, IMO.

Jon's actions on the ice, to me, reflected Dany's musings about him as being a "stupid hero", like Drogo, Jorah and Daario before him. Taking idiotic risks without thinking strategically or tactically, unnecessarily putting himself in danger for some over-the-top bravery kick. Did he think he was invincible or going to be brought back again? Thoros was dead (RIP - really liked that guy) and there was nobody left who could raise him back. Unless Jon has a completely unyielding death wish, I don't know how he thought that doing what he did would have served any purpose. Had he just gotten on Drogon with everyone else (he had the time), it would have been fine.

And where did the bloody redshirts come from anyway? There were only seven guys who left the wall at the end of the last episode. Then all of a sudden I counted ten in this one! Then one of them I think got killed by the Wight bear and I think I counted ten again! I believe there were about 3 of the unnamed extras that got wiped out on the lake - where do these guys keep coming from?

The Sansa/Arya fencing is best left not discussed. Plenty of other opinions had been expressed on the subject earlier that I 100% agree with. 'Nuff said. I just hope it gets worked out in the end. Sansa needs a loyal family protector, and Arya's the only one that fits the bill now that Brienne is on her way south.

Hmm...very torn about this episode. The good parts that were in it were REALLY good and the bad parts were equally glaring. I give it a B- overall, I guess.

For those wondering why everyone didn't have dragonglass weapons: it's easy to miss in the episode but it appears they did, as you can see here.
Now that I see it in this context I do recall The Hound dropping the hammer at one point and pulling out a small weapon of some sort, we just never got a good look at it. I suspect that the spears the wildling redshirts had were probably tipped with dragonglass too.

Oh, yeah - I saw that but it didn't occur to me that that's what it was. Lots of drop-offs in basic storytelling elements this season, just like this. A few seconds taken for expository moments explaining that (and the chain, and the..., and the..., and so forth) wouldn't hurt the pacing of the episode at all. So much feels like it's being left out because of this shortened season. It's quite frustrating...

 

[dahj]

Too much is left for the casual viewer to piece together, IMO.

To be fair, the show overall isn't exactly meant for casual viewing.

Had he just gotten on Drogon with everyone else (he had the time), it would have been fine.

Well he was first covering everybody, then was shocked by the dragon death, and then tried to get on but was tackled. Yeah it turned out a bit clumsy, but I don't think he had any extra special heroics in mind other than protecting the others as they climbed on.

And where did the bloody redshirts come from anyway? There were only seven guys who left the wall at the end of the last episode.

There were more following them(you can see them in the tunnel as the seven were walking out), they just didn't wanna get in and ruin the iconic shot

 

[Snaploud]

He could have done that yes, but could the horse have made it to the wall carrying two riders before Jon froze to death? Apparently Benjen didn't believe so.

Benjen didn't have to stay on the horse the whole way. He just needed to get far enough to avoid the army of the dead.

 

[Captain Shaw]

There are 2 things I want to see .
1.Bronn's reaction to seeing a white walker
2. Bronn's reaction to seeing a white walker dragon.

 

[Noname Given]

So...more compressed time, re-spawning companion red shirts, FTL ravens and dragons, magical battleship chains that appear out of nowhere and Gendry is an Olympic marathon runner...who knew?

^^^
100% agreed. They need to just start getting to the ending (happy or unhappy). Also, the group going out to find a walker does so with no horses? Really? And yeah, if the Dragons can fly as fast as seen in this episode, why didn't John just have her do a recon with his and he can go "See, THERE'S the army of dead Ice Walkers..."? Plus no gratuitous female nudity of other sexual debauchery? - what's this show coming to?

 

[EmoBorg]

Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow could have just hopped on Drogon and just gone looking for those ice zombies North of Eastwatch. Once found, the Dragon could have plucked one or two wights using it's claw and bought the damn thing back to the south of the Wall.

 

[dahj]

what's this show coming to?

The heights of fashion.

Dany's worn some pretty nifty coats, and they've become progressively more Stark-y.
She started off in dark grey when she met Jon, then she got the lighter grey one, with the fur trimming, and now she's full on grey/white just like the Stark colors.

It's like she likes someone

 

[FPAlpha]

Jon's actions on the ice, to me, reflected Dany's musings about him as being a "stupid hero", like Drogo, Jorah and Daario before him. Taking idiotic risks without thinking strategically or tactically, unnecessarily putting himself in danger for some over-the-top bravery kick. Did he think he was invincible or going to be brought back again? Thoros was dead (RIP - really liked that guy) and there was nobody left who could raise him back. Unless Jon has a completely unyielding death wish, I don't know how he thought that doing what he did would have served any purpose. Had he just gotten on Drogon with everyone else (he had the time), it would have been fine.

It is Jon's nature.. he's the kind of leader who won't ask his men to do things he's not willing to do himself and he places his life below that of the men and women under his command so it's only logical that he be the one to cover the retreat. He's the first in the battlefield and the last to leave.

Logically speaking it doesn't make sense of course.. he is a figurehead and much more valuable strategically as the center of the entire North, it's only because of him that the North united and that far outweighs the combat capability of a single person, no matter how good he is. However this is not the modern military where the leaders of armies or countries are safely tucked away in a command bunker deep in friendly territory where they command the war effort from.. that is realism as opposed to heroic fantasy that is GoT (would make for boring action if the main hero stayed behind and said "You go guys.. i'll be here waiting for your return".

In the Behind the Scenes for this episode one of the producers aptly describes his action as the guy who jumps on the grenade to save his platoon.

 

[Reverend]

Benjen didn't have to stay on the horse the whole way. He just needed to get far enough to avoid the army of the dead.

A slow horse with an undead army right on it's arse has a much higher probability of getting torn apart than a faster horse with someone keeping said army busy, if only for a minute. Every second gained increases the possibility of loosing them. Clearly Benjen didn't think it was worth the risk of them both riding out of there.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I believe there were twelve people in the squad - The Seven and five 'redshirts'. You can see a couple of them behind the Hound as they leave in this scene. I kept pausing the video on my second viewing, I couldn't on my first as it was live, and the most men I counted was 12.

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[Scout101]

Plus he's half dead himself, and I thought already implied that he couldn't get through the wall. What's the point of slowing down Jon if you can't get where he's going anyway? Finish dying and ensure he survives instead.

 

[FPAlpha]

Plus he's half dead himself, and I thought already implied that he couldn't get through the wall. What's the point of slowing down Jon if you can't get where he's going anyway? Finish dying and ensure he survives instead.

Once more from the Behind the Scenes they talk about Benjen (and even admit that the show is very compressed now). He is caught in a state of Limbo.. neither alive (able to return to his brothers) nor dead and for him it may be a relief to help and save someone he loves for the final time and be able to go out on his own terms and finally end his state of unliving.

It sure felt much too short and the book expands on his role quite a bit but as many have said some things are now moving way too fast.. they needed a way to end the role of Benjen so they they left behind Jon to be saved at the last minute.. it feels like paint by the numbers now. I know about the practical and above all monetary issues now that led to the shorter seasons but it hurts the show somewhat.

I really hope Martin does get to finish the books sometime so we can get the full scope of the story (and maybe a few other surprises where the show deviated from the written material).

 

[Gary7]

It was an intense episode but man... so much suspension of disbelief to enjoy it.

What I don't get is how the White Walkers could appear en masse so quickly. I thought they were making a long slow trek to some distant location. Didn't we see flash-overs that showed them all walking across a vast ice field? My understanding is that Jon and his crew were looking to head off to some place where the bulk of them wouldn't be present, so they could snag a White Walker scout. But then... all of the sudden they're surrounded. And the Night King makes a grand appearance.

Timing wise I didn't like how this episode unfolded. It was VERY slow in the beginning. Lots of talk, not much action for nearly half the episode. I understand the need to explain, but it was a bit sluggish. And then the last 20~30 minutes were intense. But how... how did Dany get word of Jon's predicament so quickly? It seemed too fast given how long they were on that little rock perch.

Also... the persistent freezing cold... don't get how the ice could be thin there. Made no sense. I was really hoping the guys with flaming swords would be able to penetrate the ice and run around in a circle to create a "moat" in the ice, so that the White Walkers couldn't cross.

Another thing... Jon Snow being under freezing water for what appeared to be minutes. Sorry... I don't care how bold someone is. You won't survive, especially being held down by baddies. And once you manage to get out, hello hypothermia. Jon would've been dead by the time he got half-way home.

Anyway... the White Walker dragon is going to be intriguing. Blue fire? Or instant ice? I thought maybe it would send forth a blue flame that instantly converts any mortal into a White Walker. An ice thrower doesn't make a lot of sense. Well... Jon has his work cut out for him. That Night King is going to be the mark to try for... I don't see how they could bring down that dragon any other way.

 

[Gary7]

Viserion's death really bothered me. I love the dragons and don't like seeing them hurt, let alone killed and turned into a zombie dragon.

I wonder how many faces Ayra has and where she got them all. They take a while to prepare and we know she created at least one from Walder Frey after leaving the faceless men.
Did anyone else thing of TV series 'Mission Impossible' when Sansa was pulling them out of the bag?

Yep, I also thought of "Mission Impossible." It seems that the faux face skins are only part of the magic... and that somehow Arya Stark manages to semi-morph into the other person in both full head, body, and clothes. So these faces are tokens that help manifest the imagery.

 

[Sophie74656]

It was an intense episode but man... so much suspension of disbelief to enjoy it.

What I don't get is how the White Walkers could appear en masse so quickly. I thought they were making a long slow trek to some distant location. Didn't we see flash-overs that showed them all walking across a vast ice field? My understanding is that Jon and his crew were looking to head off to some place where the bulk of them wouldn't be present, so they could snag a White Walker scout. But then... all of the sudden they're surrounded. And the Night King makes a grand appearance.

Timing wise I didn't like how this episode unfolded. It was VERY slow in the beginning. Lots of talk, not much action for nearly half the episode. I understand the need to explain, but it was a bit sluggish. And then the last 20~30 minutes were intense. But how... how did Dany get word of Jon's predicament so quickly? It seemed too fast given how long they were on that little rock perch.

Also... the persistent freezing cold... don't get how the ice could be thin there. Made no sense. I was really hoping the guys with flaming swords would be able to penetrate the ice and run around in a circle to create a "moat" in the ice, so that the White Walkers couldn't cross.

Another thing... Jon Snow being under freezing water for what appeared to be minutes. Sorry... I don't care how bold someone is. You won't survive, especially being held down by baddies. And once you manage to get out, hello hypothermia. Jon would've been dead by the time he got half-way home.

Anyway... the White Walker dragon is going to be intriguing. Blue fire? Or instant ice? I thought maybe it would send forth a blue flame that instantly converts any mortal into a White Walker. An ice thrower doesn't make a lot of sense. Well... Jon has his work cut out for him. That Night King is going to be the mark to try for... I don't see how they could bring down that dragon any other way.

I was thinking this too. After being under water there was NO WAY he was not going to freeze to death. At the very leaset he sould have had some major frost bite. Fingers and toes GONE.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yep, I also thought of "Mission Impossible." It seems that the faux face skins are only part of the magic... and that somehow Arya Stark manages to semi-morph into the other person in both full head, body, and clothes. So these faces are tokens that help manifest the imagery.

I was always under the impression that the face masks were for neophytes to help them learn how to change the muscle structure in their own face to match the face they're trying to emulate. A true faceless man (like Jaqen H'ghar) could change his/her face without the need for a mask. I dunno - maybe that was more of a book thing and the show took a different path.

 

[Gary7]

I was thinking this too. After being under water there was NO WAY he was not going to freeze to death. At the very leaset he sould have had some major frost bite. Fingers and toes GONE.

Maybe his having been dead and brought back to life endowed him with some special characteristics. Just as Dany is fireproof, maybe Jon is somewhat cold proof. He didn't seem as phased by the cold as the others. He was, after all, born in Winterfell and has lived a long stretch of his life in very harsh cold winters.

 

[dahj]

Another thing... Jon Snow being under freezing water for what appeared to be minutes. Sorry... I don't care how bold someone is. You won't survive, especially being held down by baddies.

It's a good thing the dragons warmed the water up with their dragon breath just moments earlier, it was basically hot springs under there

 

[137th Gebirg]

Maybe his having been dead and brought back to life endowed him with some special characteristics. Just as Dany is fireproof, maybe Jon is somewhat cold proof. He didn't seem as phased by the cold as the others. He was, after all, born in Winterfell and has lived a long stretch of his life in very harsh cold winters.

It's a good thing the dragons warmed the water up with their dragon breath just moments earlier, it was basically hot springs under there

There are a lot of stretches of logic going on here - and they all actually sound feasible, don't get me wrong - but had they taken more time to explain certain things we wouldn't have to be reaching at straws to throw a planet-sized lampshade on some of these scenes!