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For those of us who don't hate the Nu Enterprise but don't love it

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I think they had to change it. I agree with what others have said. The original design, which I do love, just screams 1960s to me. You cannot divorce things from the time period in which they were made.

That argument would have some merit if the nu-Enterprise didn't have intentional retro-look.

And I really think it is rather horrid design. I would think that even if it were not supposed to be TOS era Enterprise. Then I just wouldn't care much.

That being said, I don't think it will bother me that much when it is flying fast on screen firing photon torpedoes.
 
Personally, I think that whether or not they actually needed to change it, Abrams and company felt they did because of the design's age, and in the interests of reinvention.
 
Why do you keep comparing a real period in history with a totally made-up time-period of a totally made-up future?
I'm not, and you know it. If you can't tell the difference between comparing styles to comparing calendar dates, that's not my problem.

Okay, then why do you keep comparing the styles of a real period in recent history with that of the fictional 23rd century?

WWII - real, it happened. You can't change the styles unless you want to be historically incorrect.
23rd century - fictional, it will never look like how it was envisioned in the 1960s (our early 21st century already looks more advanced) nor will it ever look like it is envisioned now in the new Trek-film.
I've explained this, to you, directly, several times now, so the fact that you seem to keep asking it isn't that you haven't been given the answer... only that you seem to think the question is a way to invalidate an opposing viewpoint.

But for those of you who haven't seen me answer this multiple times, well, here goes again.

It's about familiarity and recognition.

You could tell, very easily, a WWII story (and not really invalidate the story at all) with the "wrong style" example I gave, above.

And the fact that it's "historically inaccurate" wouldn't necessarily be a problem either. I mean, we're not talking about a historical archive, we're talking about a work of entertainment. Possibly with John Wayne fighting the entire Nazi army single-handed... ;) You get my point... WWII-era movies don't have to be 100% accurate historical accounts of real events... they can be entirely fictional, just SET in WWII.

The REAL problem is when the stuff you see in the movie is inconsistent with what the audience expects it to look like. That has the effect of reminding the audience that what they're seeing is "wrong" which, in turn, pulls them out of their "make-believe belief" (or "willful suspension of disbelief") and from that point forward, they're watching actors on a set, with cool CGI effect, not believing, even for an instant, that what they're seeing is real (or has any consequence).
 
Hey ST-One, since you and Polaris agree often enough, maybe you can answer Ptrope's call.

WHY wouldn't modern audiences accept the Jefferies design? Please, I'd love to hear your reasoning, as well as Polaris's.

EDIT: I add this caveat..pretend nobody had ever seen Matt Jefferies' Enterprise before, pretend this was the new design being shown on our screens in 2009.

Tell me why it doesn't work in this situation.

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_456.jpg

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_477.jpg

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_217.jpg

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_868.jpg

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_746.jpg




Obviously there ISN'T any good reason...the Great Grey Ladies look just fine, inside and out.

I can accept they WANTED to make changes, but to insist they HAD to is laughable.
Agree on all but the last image. The bridge needed an update. Something closer to the Pike-era bridge would've been better, especially since that's the era the movie is set in.

I think they had to change it. I agree with what others have said. The original design, which I do love, just screams 1960s to me. You cannot divorce things from the time period in which they were made.
I disagree. Its a clean, functional, utilitarian design. Its timeless. Besides, as far as spaceships go I prefer 60's design aesthetics to modern ones - at least in general. Space travel was an impending reality back then; they knew what they were doing when they designed ships. Today its all sci-fi and CGI and hardly anyone makes a movie or a show with a halfway realistic-looking spacecraft.

I don't hate the new design, but I don't love it yet either. I'll wait to see it in action on the big screen before rendering final judgment. I'm actually more concerned with whether or not the weapons will be portrayed as having realistic yields, or whether we'll see still more space pea-shooters.
 
It's about familiarity and recognition.

People are very familiar with the (now) cheesy and cheap (fictional) look of TOS.
If people would see a design aesthetic in the new movie that is similar to TOS, they would laugh the movie out of the cinemas.
This was true in the late 1970s and it is even more so now.
 
It's about familiarity and recognition.

People are very familiar with the (now) cheesy and cheap (fictional) look of TOS.
If people would see a design aesthetic in the new movie that is similar to TOS, they would laugh the movie out of the cinemas.
This was true in the late 1970s and it is even more so now.
There is nothing at all cheesy, cheap or fictional-looking about the exterior of the original starship Enterprise. It looks functional and utilitarian and like an actual spacecraft.
 
I still challenge (except ST-One who has already submitted his explanation) all those who think the old design is cheesy and outdated to imagine a world in which the 2009 movie is the ONLY Trek in existence. Then further imagine their Enterprise was Matt Jefferies' design. All we have to debate then is whether or not this design looks good. There are NO other Enterprise designs to choose from or compare to.

Does it STILL look bad?
 
Does it STILL look bad?

Looks awfully simplistic compared to spacecraft being designed for other sci-fi films.

Let me ask another in return. Some people have been saying that a '60s aesthetic would have worked fine because the JJprise has a '50s look to it. That may be so, but tell me: do you think that, if the designers had used a retro-60s look that they would have selected the same '60s elements as made up the TOS design, or that the new Enterprise would look anything like the one from the TV show?
 
Gep, that is a fair question....

Ignoring the whole host of issues with.... well, how did Star Trek inspire the last forty years of sci-fi... and would sci-fi still be as strong without Trek paving the way....

I'd imagine it'd go more for something a bit more rocket-looking, something from the pulp sci-fi books. It'd probably look a lot like Star Wars 'Rebel Fleet' type stuff. Harder, grittier, taking cues from a 'return' to such concepts like in the Batman reboot.
 
It's about familiarity and recognition.

People are very familiar with the (now) cheesy and cheap (fictional) look of TOS.
If people would see a design aesthetic in the new movie that is similar to TOS, they would laugh the movie out of the cinemas.
This was true in the late 1970s and it is even more so now.

In your extremely biased and incorrect opinion, perhaps.

Then Roddenberry's and Jefferies' opinion must have be as incorrect as mine.
 
It's about familiarity and recognition.

People are very familiar with the (now) cheesy and cheap (fictional) look of TOS.


The new Enterprise just looks like the Enterprise to most people. Same as the TMP and TNG Enterprises did. "Familiarity and recognition" work just fine with this version, as far as at least nine out of ten viewers who even know what Trek is are concerned.
 
Based on what I've seen in the trailer clips, one won't even see the ship that clearly. Apparently the new design is primarily to sell licensed toys.
 
Based on an analysis of the trailer clips I have concluded that Chekov has no lines in this film.
 
The new Enterprise just looks like the Enterprise to most people. Same as the TMP and TNG Enterprises did. "Familiarity and recognition" work just fine with this version, as far as at least nine out of ten viewers who even know what Trek is are concerned.

Here's a fact we can agree on :bolian:. So the question is, if the "2009" supergroovy version looks just like the "1966" old-and-cheesy version to most people, then even making the "2009" version is pretty much a waste of time and effort, because to their eyes, the new one is the "1966" version. Given that we have no sound argument against the original design - albeit superdetailed for the big screen and the 'modern audience' - then it seems that they would satisfy a larger audience by adapting the original design. Yes, the fans are a smaller group, but let's face it, we're a much more vocal group than the mainstream audience, so 'word of mouth' of the two groups is probably comparable.

So we're back to, "The new design wasn't necessary - it was just a way for them to 'leave their mark' on the franchise." I just hope, after all this, they don't truly waste their time - and ours - by then going back to something more 'familiar' when the timeline is 'fixed.' That would be a slap in everyone's face, mainstream and fans alike.
 
It's about familiarity and recognition.

People are very familiar with the (now) cheesy and cheap (fictional) look of TOS.
If people would see a design aesthetic in the new movie that is similar to TOS, they would laugh the movie out of the cinemas.
This was true in the late 1970s and it is even more so now.
Except that your comment, made as though it's somehow "factual" is nothing of the sort.

There is nothing "cheesy" or "cheap" about the design of the original Enterprise exterior. And while there are some elements (cast-resin "gumdrops", overuse of color gels in lighting and the use of "winky-blinkies" and vacuum-formed shapes to represent displays and mechanical hardware) in the interior design which is, perhaps, a bit "cheesy," those elements alone could be removed without eliminating other elements which are by NO MEANS "cheesy."

You have a predisposition for a particular style. Fine. Just don't pretend that your PERSONAL TASTE is the same thing as an objective, fact-based evaluation.

It certainly wasn't "cheap." The initial budgets for Trek were very high, in real dollars. The budgets fell through the floor later, granted, but the sets were really quite well done, well-conceived, and well-realized. Yes, we could see them "tweaked" to make them more real today. But there's a difference between "tweaking" them and "throwing them away entirely" which is, effectively, what's been done.

And as for "cheesy," the biggest complaint many folks have over the "new Trek" designs (interior and exterior) is that they... not the TOS ones... are "cheesy." You may not agree... and that's fine.

I, personally, think that the corridor sets look stupid and VERY "cheesy." They make no sense, either practically, or mechanically. I, personally, think that the changes to the exterior of the ship look "cheesy"... expecially the nacelle and nacelle-pylon areas. I think that the all-chrome, spinning-barrel phaser looks "cheesy." I think that the bar-code-scanners on the bridge look "cheesy." I think the plexiglass panels with "circuit board traces" all over the bridge look "cheesy." And I think that the "chevrons all over the fabric" thing looks "cheesy.

Does this mean that the flick will suck? No. But it sure isn't an IMPROVEMENT over what we had before. Adding nonsensical clutter just to look ... and I'm waiting for "the gang" to simultaneously have a hissy fit over my use of this term... to look "kewl" is just CHEESY.

Using higher-quality versions of the original sets... a higher-quality model of the original ship design... higher-quality versions of the original props... would have helped this flick, not hurt it. That's MY opinion. I think that the "new" stuff is uniformly "cheesy" and generally HURTS the new show.

But that, by itself, won't KILL it. The acting, writing, and direction are what will ultimately make or break the film. All of what we're talking about here is set-dressing... literally in some cases.
 
Based on an analysis of the trailer clips I have concluded that Chekov has no lines in this film.
http://movies.about.com/od/startrek/a/startrek021408.htm
"A big part of getting into the character, Chekov, was figuring out what to do with the accent Koenig adopted for the role.”
It looks like he does have lines.

Yeah, that was the idea. Just as one can't draw the (obviously false) conclusion that Chekov has no lines in the film from the fact that he has no lines in the trailer, one can hardly conclude that there will be no "clear" shots of the Enterprise in the film simply because we don't see her glide majestically past in the trailer. That's just how trailers are cut these days, at least for flicks like this one. That said, I doubt we'll be "treated" to a half-hour flyby of the ship as in TMP. :lol:
 
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