For those of us who don't hate the Nu Enterprise but don't love it
- Thread starter sunburn800
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^That's pretty much how I feel, except I'm really LOVING this NU design!
Actually, what you like is exactly what I don't like, and for the very reason you point out.
"Sexy" and "fluid" is all about style, you see, not substance. My preference for the original is because it's not designed to look "sexy" and "fluid" but rather to look like a naval vessel, like a machine, like something where function takes priority over style.
Your observation is entirely accurate... but what you correctly observe is a positive to some (like you) and a negative to others (like me).
That said... as I've mentioned before... I wouldn't mind this design, if it were standing on its own. I was one who really wanted to see a "TNG-era Constitution-based design" for the Titan, for instance, and I could easily see this fulfilling that role - resembling the classic ship in some ways but with the more "artsy" TNG-era stylistic conceits.
So if they'd said "Hey, this is what the Titan looks like" I'd have been ecstatic. It's just not the Enterprise...
^Why is this design ''OKAY'' for the TNG-era, but not the TOS-era?
Because based on what We know...
The TOS Era (Pre-TMP) was/is apparently very Utilitarian in their design ethic when it came to starships, whereas the TMP to TNG Era was/is very Ergonomic/Artsy in their starship design ethics.
This movie deals with the Pre-Tos/TOS Era and is visually giving Us a mixture of that Era (a la the Kelvin), plus a TMP/TNG feeling.
I'm kinda-sorta liking/not liking it at the moment.
(...though after typing this post, I now realize exactly what has been bothering me about it in general...)
It's a bit disconcerting seeing the Whole Design Flow of Star Trek combined into one movie in this manner.
Once I actually see the movie as a whole, I will probably lean more toward liking it.
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I honestly think it's going to be one of those things that most of us will just stop noticing after a while, once we're used to it. Actually liking it is another thing. I accept it, at least via my own personal fanon retcon that I hope the movie confirms. It doesn't need to, but I'd like for it to.
Also, I don't think I will ever like the bridge.
Also, I don't think I will ever like the bridge.
This is one 'fact' that has no basis in fact whatsoever. Detail the classic outline and proportions, and shoot it with the more sophisticated lighting and cinematography of which today's CGI is capable, and you get something like these, either of which would easily satisfy a 'modern' audience:
deg3d's "TOS.5" Enterprise
Vektor's Enterprise
Neither ship is a replica of the original, but both of them hew very closely to its lines while adding the sort of detail that makes one say, "I could see this as the difference between seeing it on the small screen and seeing it on the big screen." They convey the scale and substance that make it believable, and neither one would be out of place alongside any ship shown in a sci-fi blockbuster of the last 10 years - they would easily command attention in such a venue.
I don't hate the new ship. I don't think any of the 'reasoning' behind the redesign is rational, and I just think it's awkward on its own merits, notwithstanding its departures from the original; the original ship was well-balanced, visually, and mechanically plausible - this one looks like no engineer ever touched it. It may look good in motion, but if it's only designed to look good in motion, then it's an incomplete design, which is what it feels like to me.
No they wouldn't. They're real good design variants, though. Fine modeling.
I can see what you describe in the two ships. I get the same sort of impression from the Enterprise -- of an early-to-mid-1950s Virgil Exner automobile design (the 1954 Stude Commander, say.) But when I look at the Kelvin and that great big underslung engine nacelle, I do get WWII, yes, but it's one of these I keep seeing in the back of my mind, instead of a tank or sub.
Here are some links to art I think yall will appreciate. Think you need membership to view pics, but it's worth it.
Best 3d Mesh of the Nu Enterprise I've seen to date
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/56513-uss-enterprise-star-trek-2009-a.html
This link shows an 2D refit version of the Nu Enterprise as it would look with more TMP elements to the design.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/2d-wips/55692-new-enterprise-refit.html
Best 3d Mesh of the Nu Enterprise I've seen to date
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/56513-uss-enterprise-star-trek-2009-a.html
This link shows an 2D refit version of the Nu Enterprise as it would look with more TMP elements to the design.
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/2d-wips/55692-new-enterprise-refit.html
I don't see that the second effectively incorporates much from the refit. It does look a lot like the TNG Enterprise, though.
We agree to disagree, then; I've never seen a single good argument as to why they wouldn't, not from you, Dennis, nor from anyone else.
I'm just as much the modern audience as anyone - I was equally raised on Star Wars as on Trek, as well as 2001:A Space Odyssey and every bit of ILM's model and CGI work. I've followed Syd Mead and Ryan Church and every designer and CGI house who's had a hand in shaping what today's audience sees onscreen. Knowing how this stuff is done more than the average theater-goer, and looking past the design to the implementation, I, as a modern audience member, have absolutely no problem with either of these taking their place on the big screen. It's not just a matter of it 'looking like the original ship'; this sort of execution and design is no less acceptable to me, and I'm sure millions of other moviegoers.
But you and others somehow seem 'certain' that this is impossible, that the design is dated, or whatever other excuse is used, Yet none of those excuses work - you've never backed them up with anything resembling a fact! "Absolutely right" is a catchphrase, not a reason - tell us why you are right and the rest of us are wrong. Maybe there is a plausible reason, but until you give us one, sorry - you're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is. Just because you want a new design doesn't mean the old ones won't work.
^ Ultimately, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, is it not, no matter how it's stated?
Tobias Richter's mesh (the first link) has been the subject of at least one TrekToday article and of several threads in the Trek Art forum here, in the last few months (also, MadMan1701a has been working on renders based on both that and Richter's Kelvin mesh, iinm.) I'm not as sure that we've seen madeinjapan1988's drawings here before.
You may be more dead-on with those examples. In either case, the feel is there, and it's kinda nice.
I see the nuEnterprise as being a (22)70s ship imagined from a (22)50s standpoint - I mean to say that I think Starfleet has thrown in a lot of advanced technology designed in reaction to the first appearance of the Narada and it is therefore conceptually more advanced than the TOS ship. There is a certain turbine-driven concept car from the 50s whose name I forget that I am particularly drawing a mental comparison to.
Never really ventured into the Trek Art forum, that will change though. That mesh is fantastic.
I think madeinjapan1988's drawings are a pretty good take on what a nu E refit could look like, except the secondary hull is too long/big. That being said, the only thing about the nu E I don't like is the opposite...the secondary hull is too small and pushed too far forward.
Might be worth poking around this site, to see whether it jogs any specifics. Or here.
There's also this, which isn't really a turbine-powered vehicle (but it played one on TV.
More here.)
The secondary hull is out of proportion, and I rally don't care for the curved nacelles. But then again, when I first saw the NCC-1701D I thought it looked like the love baby of a spaceship and a mollusk. So I can live with it.
To be honest I never thought the D looked ''RIGHT'' to begin with! That's why I prefer the E-E!
And I think the E-E is a hideous cobbling-together of elements from Voyager, the Excelsior, and the TOS Enterprise that just doesn't work as a design with any grace or unity whatever. So, each to his/her own taste.
And I think the E-E is a hideous cobbling-together of elements from Voyager, the Excelsior, and the TOS Enterprise that just doesn't work as a design with any grace or unity whatever. So, each to his/her own taste.
Ah, Polaris, I knew I liked you for a reason.
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