Fear the Walking Dead - Season 5 discussion and spoilers.

[JD]

I wonder if they're purposefully avoiding giving them a single base/community because that would make it to as different as possible from the original series.

I think the trucker and her disabled brother are the most vulnerable, along with Karen Grace and the rabbi.

I'm amazed Wendell, the guy in the wheelchair is on as much as his is, the actor who plays him, Daryl Mitchell, is a regular on NCIS: New Orleans.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think the trucker and her disabled brother are the most vulnerable, along with Karen Grace and the rabbi. I do like the group as it stands now and I don't mind them focusing on different characters in individual episodes. One thing that distinguishes this show from the parent show is that they haven't felt compelled to shockingly kill off a major character in every episode, which I find tedious.

It may be tedious, but this series needs to shed weight, as too many characters are just there to parrot Morgan, or give the occasional sad look when they fail at yet another thing.

I had a similar thought, particularly the whole thing with her was set up to be too closely a parallel to the flashback at the beginning with Logan trying to rescue the girl that there has to be something more going on there.

I agree. It was as if she was acting out a well-known script used to bait and/or test people.

Having a more positive goal isn't really a problem per se, it's more how they're going about it. Morgan wants to go out and help people out, fine, a noble ideal on its own. But, you need a stable base of operations to do so. If he were still with the Communities on Walking Dead, I could see it working, there's a thriving society operating there and then he can lead expeditions to scout away, and as he runs into people, meets them, screens them and if they seem suitable direct them to Alexandria and if he runs into another community, he can be a sort of ambassador to open a dialogue with them.

...and the series is doing the opposite of what you're saying. Instead of being logical and establishing a firm base of operations, they just wander around, and that is completely nonsensical when the world has placed everyone in survival mode. Who would have time to walk around spouting "we help people" when they are not helping themselves. Hell, at least the New Highwaymen had the sense to find and use horses. Morgan and Company are fighting over gas, which will still end up being a finite source if the new enemies take control of any resource over a wide area, and that's not even touching on other groups with the numbers and the same idea.

Instead we got an aimless convoy of people who feel the need to do The Right Thing when they have far more immediate concerns they should be addressing, like finding a permanent home.

Yep.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I wonder if they're purposefully avoiding giving them a single base/community because that would make it to as different as possible from the original series.

That would make sense. It would be redundant to focus on community building on both shows.

I'm amazed Wendell, the guy in the wheelchair is on as much as his is, the actor who plays him, Daryl Mitchell, is a regular on NCIS: New Orleans.

I'd like to see more of him, and how he deals being a guy in a wheelchair during the Zombie Apocalypse.

It may be tedious, but this series needs to shed weight, as too many characters are just there to parrot Morgan, or give the occasional sad look when they fail at yet another thing.

I don't necessarily agree that it needs to shed weight, but even if it does there are better (and more creative) ways to do so than to kill people off.

 

[The Wormhole]

I wonder if they're purposefully avoiding giving them a single base/community because that would make it to as different as possible from the original series.

That would make sense. It would be redundant to focus on community building on both shows.

Thing is, from a production point of view having a permanent base/community for the characters to call home saves a hell of a lot on the show's budget. There are ways to have it community-based while keeping it sufficiently different from Walking Dead. Hell, Fear was originally supposed to be the more character oriented of the two shows, that's a good place to start with establishing the differences.

 

[JD]

It might work if they treated it more like a base where they where plan and set out on their missions instead of a town like the communities on the other show.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Now that Max Headroom is dead, they can go back to the factory or warehouse or whatever it was.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I don't necessarily agree that it needs to shed weight, but even if it does there are better (and more creative) ways to do so than to kill people off.

Then you need to ask yourself: of the "A" and "B" protagonists on the show, who is really bringing something important to the plot? How many have a story you really want to know or is developed?

Now that Max Headroom is dead, they can go back to the factory or warehouse or whatever it was.

Reasonable...but Logan was partnered with the Horsemen and the other group, so wouldn't they also know about that factory?

 

[The Wormhole]

Also, factory/warehouse was torn to shreds, so it may not be worth the trouble to go back.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ It was ransacked, but I don't think the place was ruined.

Then you need to ask yourself: of the "A" and "B" protagonists on the show, who is really bringing something important to the plot? How many have a story you really want to know or is developed?

As we've seen, everybody is expendable. But by the same token, anybody can be given an interesting story.

Reasonable...but Logan was partnered with the Horsemen and the other group, so wouldn't they also know about that factory?

They've been there and abandoned it. They obviously have no use for it.

 

[JD]

Then you need to ask yourself: of the "A" and "B" protagonists on the show, who is really bringing something important to the plot? How many have a story you really want to know or is developed?

I don't know if there's really anybody who has to survive, but if I had to pick characters I'd like to see survive, I'd go with Alicia, Luciana, Victor, Morgan, John and June, and Al. I really started watching the show regularly last season, and when I think of the show those are characters who really come to mind first for me.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'll be very surprised if Luciana survives the season. Aside from when she was first introduced in the second half of season 2, the writers have really struggled to figure out how to use her, and with her now a prisoner/slave of Ginny's group, it feels like the writing's on the wall.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Fear the Walking Dead
Season 5 / Episode 14 - "Today and Tomorrow"

Morgan: Morgan still working through his problems...
But he's low on gas and insists on making "...a difference." The one positive is that he's sort of over his depression about his family, but this cannot be turned into cheap drama by having his interest in Grace reward him with another loss.

Althea: Since when did she become a reconnaissance/rescue expert? She is still--more than anything else--a videographer who happened to survive into the ZA, but now she's going on a one-woman mission into Paradise Ridge? Further, she was hypocritical in never telling Morgan why she's so desperate, yet nearly demands personal stories from everyone else. By the time she tells Morgan she's looking for her one-minute crush, he does not question how reckless she is in going into enemy territory primarily for that self-interested reason. Of course, the showrunners will never have Althea's desperation come under logical, deserved scrutiny/criticism.

Daniel / Grace: So, Grace was growing sweet on Morgan, or just trying to "help him" as she put it? In any case, the Fear The Walking Dead's Got Talent scene was a bit indulgent, and I did think with every passing moment of her trying to live, something would take a downward turn.

Charlie is credited with bringing Daniel out of his own state of depression/isolation. Makes sense. That makes him a far more tolerable character than he's ever been.

Virginia's Highway people / Tom: If Tom's story was on the level, the idea of the Highway people blaming him/wanting to kill him for a "failure" having nothing to do with them builds on their unforgiving worldview, but its a completely impractical lifestyle in a post-apocalyptic world when dealing with the innocent.

NOTES: Once again, the series works well in the "splintered team-ups" format, but Virginia is a growing presence, so that has to come to an end. Too bad.

I sort of suspect Virginia will play some role in the fate of Grace--or so it appears. Either she will use giving her proper medical treatment as buying the heroes' service/loyalty, or she will be the instrument of Grace's death.

GRADE: C+

 

[The Wormhole]

I think I've finally figured out what's wrong with the show this season, or rather this half-season, and it parallels the show's storyline concerning the Convoy: it's aimless without any direction. I mean, we're what, two more episodes left to the season, and the show doesn't really seem to be building towards anything. Last year, we had the story with the filthy crazy lady trying to kill Morgan and gang, and the first half of this season it was the nuclear meltdown and flying the plane away, but this half of the season? They were establishing Logan's gang and their quest for the oil fields as an ongoing arc for these eight episodes, but that all got resolved last week, so now what? Yes, we got Ginny and her horsemen introduced, and it's likely the finale will involve a confrontation between them and the Convoy. But really, they're so recent and new to the show and despite sort of being hinted at a few weeks prior, they don't really feel like an organic continuation of any storyline ongoing from earlier.

Anyway, on to this week in particular, it does seem the not so subtle similarities between Ginny's Horsemen and the Helicopter People have in their philosophy are acknowledged and seemingly dismissed, though I'm still not convinced this is the end of that topic. I suspect after Morgan and Al left Paradise Ridge, Ginny probably starting fuming "how the hell do they know about the helicopter?"

Otherwise, some okay character stuff, though Grace's storyline is starting to reach its predictable outcome, and I'm starting to get some vibes that Morgan's about to go Clear mode again.

I will say the gatekeeper/watchman at Paradise Ridge that's responsible for killing Walkers that get too close was a surprisingly amusing element to this episode, especially when he accidentally yeanked the arm off the Walker he was dragging away.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, so much for my hopes that Grace would be immune to the radiation. Unless she just got food poisoning or something and is assuming it's radiation illness. It's certainly odd that there are no outward signs, like burns or tumors. I'd really much rather have her stick around and hook up with Morgan.

We also got a look at Virginia's compound. Definitely Negan light. I'm really tired of Big Bads, and I'd rather see people dealing with the Zombie Apocalypse on a personal level, but we'll see how this pans out.

I think the most heart-wrenching aspect of this episode was watching that vinyl get trampled.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think I've finally figured out what's wrong with the show this season, or rather this half-season, and it parallels the show's storyline concerning the Convoy: it's aimless without any direction.

Yes, that's the point--the wandering-around-helping-people mission means what? The showrunners wanted to push that peacenik, altruistic narrative into TWD universe, but its completely impractical for a small group with no resources or stable base of operations, not to mention sheer manpower. If they had the combined numbers of the Kingdom/Hilltop/ASZ--and their locations, then it would make sense. As it stands now, they are a group of pointlessly idealistic types ill-equipped to survive. If this was the point of Madison's efforts of creating a base (the stadium) going up in flames to ultimately go the "we help people" route, then the series has reached a brick wall.

I mean, we're what, two more episodes left to the season, and the show doesn't really seem to be building towards anything.

From the teaser, I guess Virginia will force the heroes' hand in some way--possibly having something to do with Grace. If that turns out to be a negative...

Otherwise, some okay character stuff, though Grace's storyline is starting to reach its predictable outcome, and I'm starting to get some vibes that Morgan's about to go Clear mode again.

...which the showrunners have teased all season long, as if that's his real side waiting to come out (that could be predictably triggered by something happening to Grace, just as he told Althea that he no longer needed camera therapy sessions). The problem with that is it suggests that being normal was never his true nature--that he's always a raving, murderous nutjob at his core, and that ruins his character arc of going from depressed to insane and back to sane again, all because the showrunners would pander to the fans of "Clear" Morgan.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'd really much rather have her stick around and hook up with Morgan.

Agreed.

We also got a look at Virginia's compound. Definitely Negan light. I'm really tired of Big Bads, and I'd rather see people dealing with the Zombie Apocalypse on a personal level, but we'll see how this pans out.

Yeah--the "survival horror" part has been pushed into the back in favor weird and/or monologuing villains, with the walkers only being short set pieces (e.g. Alicia's fight with the walkers who ended up poisoning her) instead of the mass threats they were in earlier seasons of the parent series.

I think the most heart-wrenching aspect of this episode was watching that vinyl get trampled.

Good thing there were no Who albums in that pile, otherwise that would have been shattering!

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^

 

[JD]

Watched this yesterday morning.
It was interesting to see a bit more of Ginny and her people. I kind of like the fact that they are actually kind of friendly at times, it's a nice change of pace from the brutality of people like Negan and the Saviors. Looks like they're a pretty big group, with several different settlements spread out through the area.
Looks like we addressed and resolved the question of whether or not Ginny and Co. are related to the helicopter people.
We got some nice character stuff for Al, Morgan, and Grace especially. I have kind of mixed feelings on Grace, on the one had I like her and would like to see her stick around, but on the other hand if they kill her off them maybe Karen David would be free to go back Legacies.

 

[The Wormhole]

It was interesting to see a bit more of Ginny and her people. I kind of like the fact that they are actually kind of friendly at times, it's a nice change of pace from the brutality of people like Negan and the Saviors.

Eh, it's clear Ginny's only being cordial at the moment to Morgan and gang because she's trying to recruit them into her group. We know from last week she doesn't hesitate to kill anyone who no longer serves a use to her, like with Logan and his gang. And indeed, when challenged, she was willing to kill our heroes at the oil fields until Luciana struck a deal.

I guarantee, by the finale we'll see Ginny be just as cruel and brutal as Negan and the Saviors, if not worse.

 

[RJDiogenes]

She's nice and friendly in the same way that Negan was nice and friendly-- mercilessly.