Fear the Walking Dead - Season 5 discussion and spoilers.

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TREK_GOD_1, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The episode overall was kind of meh, but it did have moments I really liked, such as John and the Rabbi having awkward small-talk or what appears to be some sort of relationship developing between Dwight and Sarah.

    The main flaw with the premise was Charlie's sudden desire to put down roots somewhere so that the Convoy can have a home and not be nomadic. But at the moment, they're basically on the run from Logan and his people, so establishing a permanent home just makes it easier to be found by them, as proven with Logan's people finding the Convoy where it was camped at in this episode. I can understand Charlie is a child and doesn't quite get the fact they need to keep moving, but why don't John or June point this out to her as the explanation for why they won't be staying at the synagogue and establishing it as their home?

    And so, it appears Logan's henchman Dwight chose to spare a few weeks back has remained a douche and is continuing to work with Logan against the Convoy. While it might be realistic that he's not turned by his one encounter with Dwight's mercy and suddenly sees the light of Morgan's ways and joins the Peace Corps, what exactly is the message they are trying to send here? That sometimes you are better off just dealing with a douche when you run into one? While hardly a new message for the Walking Dead franchise, it does seem kind of odd, given how this show is now built on Morgan's ideals, and Dwight spared the guy because of Morgan's ideals that we're now going to poke holes in those ideals espoused by the show's lead.

    The Rabbi himself, not really much new there. A religious man with a crisis of faith who is presumably going to rediscover his faith over the course of his character arc. Aside from being (I think) the first Jewish character for the franchise, there's not really much new ground here at all. And really, the show is having trouble juggling its main and supporting cast that they really don't need to add another character. After all, this is the first we've seen of John, June, Charlie and Sarah in three weeks, the first of Dwight in two, we went without Morgan, Alicia, Strand and Al this week, Grace and Daniel haven't been around in two weeks, and Wendell hasn't been around since this half of the season started.
     
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  2. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    It seems like Fear is turning into a bit of a mini anthology series, as the convoy finds people to help-- we're seeing how stray individuals and families have coped with the Zombie Apocalypse and somehow survived without being eaten or victimized. It's not the anthology I wanted to see, but it's nice to see these unique situations, from the mined homestead to the homicidal author to the lonely rabbi. The rabbi's story somewhat paralleled Father Gabriel, except that he was not directly responsible for the death of his congregation-- and he managed to retain his Jewish sense of humor.

    Dwight's acquaintance was apparently not impressed by Dwight's show of Morgan-like mercy, as he showed up to harass the caravan along with the others. But it seems unlikely that Dwight's gesture was random or meaningless in story terms. I'm pretty sure it will prove to be crucial at a pivotal moment.
     
  3. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because pointing out the obvious would lead to a 5 page script. They had to drag out characters never being logical with each other in order to give the rabbi and Charlie some personal issue to overcome--which was not much of an issue at all.

    I think the showrunners just cannot help themselves; ideologically, they support Morgan's peacenik crusade, no matter how unrealistic it is in the ZA, but they still want to hold on to his appeal from the "Clear" days--always teasing that he's a stick of dynamite too close to the matches. They cannot have it both ways, especially in the wake of Morgan having gone through Eastman to overcome his violence / regrets, but they still want to sell the idea that crazy, mass murderer Morgan could be triggered. That would not help the character or series.

    Rest assured, this growing caravan of humanity will be thinned out sooner or later. Its the same thing that happened on TWD; as soon a another major arc is about to unfold, characters drop like flies, as in the case of Tyreese, Beth and Bob (all season 5) before start of the Alexandria arc, or Glenn and Abraham (same episode) just as the Saviors story was finally about to break wide open. Expect a major character and redshirts to vanish.
     
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  4. Q2UnME

    Q2UnME Commodore Commodore

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    Oh for Pete’s sake, boiling raw crude does not make gasoline. You might be able to condense a little bit of something resembling paint thinner, that would be about it. For the money that they throw at this production, you’d think they would at least try to get some what close to something believable
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fear the Walking Dead
    Season 5 / Episode 13 - "Leave What You Don't"


    Luciana: Finally giving Luciana something to do other than being "that woman who used to be with that character who was killed off". But how she's treated by Virginia...is another matter. Hopefully, this is not a set up for the death of the character. She has not been properly developed post Nick, but her earlier storyline was one of the stronger of any FTWD character.

    Alicia / Strand: You just knew that Alicia's newfound beliefs had to be rewarded with Wes returning to help, but his turnaround is still too sudden for someone willing to kill over a freaking script.

    Something about the backstory of the woman they saved appeared too convenient. Yes, no one would erect a flimsy barricade and trap themselves in a one-way out building surrounded by walkers (unless she always had back-up in the field), but she was far too calm after being rescued--as if she was a plant. Only time will tell.

    John Dorie / June: Sigh. False dilemma: Logan is a proven threat. There was no reason why John refused to shoot him, or pick off his lackeys.

    Dwight: Smart ambush. For once, playing it Morgan's way (sparing Logan's crony) resulted in a practical benefit--just not the kind he would expect from sparing the lives of enemies.

    Logan and the Gang: Logan trying to help...at first, I thought this was their Revenge of the Sith-ian crawl nod ("heroes on every side") bit, but it turned out to be a flashback to set up Virginia and her...Highway-people as part of this season's bigger conflict.

    So, after all of the hullabaloo about Frewer guesting as Logan, it all comes down to this? I understand Logan was--ultimately--a small fish in a big pond, but the showrunners made too much out of him, when anyone would have "offed" him just as quickly as Virginia and her group. ..and despite their best efforts, this last episode flashback to show how he once tried to help, only to become bitter really did not justify all of the crap he dished out since his first appearance.

    NOTES: Second Morgan/Althea-free episode in a row, and I'm not missing either.. On that note, once again, the series works when there's not a full cast. While there's entertainment value in that, it is a constant reminder of the inherent flaw in this latest version of the series. They need to really reduce the number of A and B players...,

    GRADE: B.
     
  6. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Like pretty much every thing you ever say, I disagree, I actually like them jumping between the groups. I'd rather see characters disappearing for one or two episodes and then getting one focused entirely on them, than trying to force everyone into every episode.
    I know absolutely nothing about making gasoline, and I even I thought it had to be a lot more complicated than just boiling the crude.

    I've been behind a couple episodes, so I ended up watching last week's yesterday and last night's this morning. The episode introducing the Rabbi was OK, but I'm a big fan of Peter Jacobson, so I was pretty happy to see him introduced into the show.
    Last night''s was definitely better. The backstory flashback for how Logan ended up the way he was and the introduction to Ginny and her group was interesting.
    It was nice to see Luciana, Wendell and the kids again.
    I was really disappointed to probably lose Matt Frewer, once Logan started to change his mind I was hoping that meant he was sticking around. I had completely forgotten that Sarah and Wendell stole Logan's partner's rig.
    Ginny and her group seem like they should be interesting villains.
    I was surprised to see Wes again, but I liked him up until his turn at the end, so if he's going to be closer to that, I don't mind him sticking around.
     
  7. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think this has been an OK season....but at THIS point in the apocalypse, random helping just seems kinda impractical... at this point, you gotta starting thinking the long haul (like what Madison was starting at the Stadium).

    Logan's demise and his group was shocking, but then disappointing...like that was all to him? ANd his followers, with the only dialogue being some angry words at Logan by one character, they seemed extremely hollow and pointless.


    I just feel like they have been trying to find some purpose...almost like the DC Film Universe in how they keep switching things to try to find success.

    It SOUNDS like there is NO connection between Ginny's Rangers and the Black Suits so kinda disappointing.

    Question on Wendell and Sarah stealing the rig... i know they did that...but how directly did that contribute to Polar Bear's death? I mean, from what i remember, Clayton was fine enough to find another car to drive. the problem was that he crashed the car so bad he was mortally wounded. Sure he might have been fine if he had the truck...but it's not like Sarah & Wendell forced him to drive a knowingly defective car.

    Is next week the finale?
     
  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the characters staying on the road, and focusing on helping people is their attempt keep it different from the original, which has pretty much settled in Alexandria and The Hilltop, and is focuses a lot on their conflicts with other groups.
     
  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is what you get with showrunners pushing the Peace Corps angle in a series that should always be about pursuing long term goals. The enemies should be the element that interrupts that goal, not the protagonists. It says much when Logan is about 87% correct about the futility of Morgan's crusade. For all of the time that passed in the post Madison/Nick period, this group have hardly been successful in helping survivors. Ragtag goodwill cannot last long.

    Agreed. But I suppose it was to illustrate that each new "boss" will be more terrifying than the last...or so it should work that way.

    Are you sure? Her promises suggested her group is merely a part of the larger group Logan referred to.

    I believe there are two episodes left in the season.
     
  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They go off to a bit of a rough start before they found the kids, but they seem to be doing pretty good. They gotten together a pretty good size group, and there's no telling how many other people they helped who didn't join up.
    I like to see one of the series going for a more positive goal, and I really don't understand why you seem to think it's so horrible.
     
  11. jbny67

    jbny67 Captain Captain

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    Three actually.
     
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  12. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    So we finally got a glimpse into Max Headroom's traumatic past. He was once a helper, just like Morgan's group, but he failed to help a young woman and was recruited by the Highwaymen, or whatever they are, right at that vulnerable moment. But when history repeated itself and the guy that Alicia helped had a last-second change of heart, it kind of brought him around. Which earned him a death sentence. I'm a little disappointed, actually. It seems like Max Headroom's potential was wasted and this new woman and her cavalry seems like just Negan Lite.

    I'm a little concerned about what will become of Luciana now. I hope this isn't just going to lead to her death. Maybe she will be able to influence the horse people from within.
     
  13. Monkey Klaus

    Monkey Klaus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't buy he would loose faith after one failure. Surely like most people in this world he must have seen plenty of death even from people closer to him than a stranger. Jason
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was wondering about that too, this almost felt like it could have been the first step towards writing her off the show. Thinking about it more, I realize now that they could actually use her to give us an insider's perspective on the Ginny and her cowboys/girls.
    I didn't realize we were that close to the end. I wonder they'll finish up the stuff with Ginny and co. at the end of the season, or if it will continue into next?
     
  15. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Well, he was about to find out his partner was dead. And it probably wasn't their first failure.

    Maybe she'll win some of them over. Or the flip side to that is, maybe they'll brainwash her into being their new Max Headroom.
     
  16. RPOW0614

    RPOW0614 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Lame episode.
    So, in a state with hundreds of oil refineries the best method they come up with to make gasoline is to boil crude in an open pit at a quarry?
    Killing off of Logan and company was surprising but not unexpected. They were too "one note" to go much further. Too bad, I like Matt Frewer.
    Ginny is just Negan in a ugly hat on a horse.
    Trying hard to continue with this show but it's like they are challenging the audience to keep watching with these horrible story lines.
     
  17. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Get ready--I suspect they will have her do something over-the-top on the sadism scale to sell her as the One to Fear...at least until the group dressed in black finally reveal themselves.

    That's what I said in the review--I like her character--probably more than the rest at this point, and of the cast, she has the best backstory that can still take the character somewhere. Earlier I said the showrunners will need to thin the herd, and I fully expect that, but I hope they kill off characters who actually bring little to the overall plot. That's probably 4 characters.
     
  18. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the people in black were Anne from the original series' people, and their appearance here was just a set for the Rick Grimes (and maybe Michonne) movies?
     
  19. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    That is unfortunately probably true.

    I think the trucker and her disabled brother are the most vulnerable, along with Karen Grace and the rabbi. I do like the group as it stands now and I don't mind them focusing on different characters in individual episodes. One thing that distinguishes this show from the parent show is that they haven't felt compelled to shockingly kill off a major character in every episode, which I find tedious.

    That seems to be the case, although Anne seems to be more of a pawn than part of the group.
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I'm late to the party this week. Hurricane Dorian was a thing and prevented me from watching the show on Sunday, so as a by-product of waiting for power to return and my work schedule being in the way, I only just managed watch the episode today.

    Anyhoo, a fairly enjoyable episode which kept me entertained at least. The drama of the Oil Fields are finally resolved, we learn who has been pulling Logan's strings all along, a new threatening group has emerged and dealt with Logan and group. The new gang, horse riders who are apparently "everywhere" not sure what to make of them yet. They seem to be playing a long game and Ginny says things about preparing for the future similar to what Isabel said was her people's philosophy. I doubt that's a coincidence, so they're likely connected. Perhaps a sort of "sub group" loyal to the Black Armours like Jadis and her people on Walking Dead apparently were?

    It is rather ironic, when Wes was introduced and said "people are people" as a means of expressing his cynicism, he becomes a tool of the show's more optimistic interpretation of people being people. After walking away seemingly devoid of hope, Wes has a complete 180, both metaphorically and literally and returns to help the woman at the truck stop and how seems to be embracing the values of Morgan's Peace Corps. Logan's Lackey that's been having a feud with Dwight has apparently decided to "stop being an asshole" and presumably is now joining the Convoy since he can't go back to Logan and I doubt he's going to be inclined to join Ginny's group. And Logan himself apparently was about to have a change of heart and join up before Ginny removed the option for him.
    I had a similar thought, particularly the whole thing with her was set up to be too closely a parallel to the flashback at the beginning with Logan trying to rescue the girl that there has to be something more going on there.
    Having a more positive goal isn't really a problem per se, it's more how they're going about it. Morgan wants to go out and help people out, fine, a noble ideal on its own. But, you need a stable base of operations to do so. If he were still with the Communities on Walking Dead, I could see it working, there's a thriving society operating there and then he can lead expeditions to scout away, and as he runs into people, meets them, screens them and if they seem suitable direct them to Alexandria and if he runs into another community, he can be a sort of ambassador to open a dialogue with them.

    Actually, while writing this out, I realized this probably would have been a better direction to take Fear in when Morgan crossed over. When he got to Texas, have him arrive at a community run by Madison which is thriving but has become insular due to threats posed by rivals they've fought with. They could still incorporate the stuff with the truck stops and the supply boxes as something Morgan saw on the roads as he was making his journey which inspires him. Then over the course of the season for various story reasons, Morgan manages to convince Madison's community the importance of reaching out, providing shelter for any who need it and making contact with potential allies who could be out there. You can still have the Morgan running a Peace Corps under circumstances in which it makes a bit more sense. The damndest thing is, they could still have kept all the other changes they introduced into the show, John, June, Al, could be residents of the community and still be the same characters, though the relationship angle between John and June might need to be reworked. You can still introduce Sarah and Wendell as people Morgan runs into when he starts off trying to help this community reach out, and they could still kill off Madison if they were so inclined. Indeed, having her killed could serve as an impetus to why the community feels it necessary to start branching off again.

    Instead we got an aimless convoy of people who feel the need to do The Right Thing when they have far more immediate concerns they should be addressing, like finding a permanent home.