I don't think Luke is ruined and I don't think they craped on canon. Neither is Discovery.
Is it the way I would have told it? Nope, but I'm a fan and fans don't always tell the best stories.
Episode IX Speculation and Discussion
- Thread starter INACTIVESamusAranX
- Start date
Is it the way I would have told it? Nope, but I'm a fan and fans don't always tell the best stories.
I really don't want to get into this Mary Sue debate, but this is just ridiculous
One is good at swinging a laser sword. The other summoned a bolt of lightning from the sky AFTER being dead for 30 years. Which one is more powerful?
One is good at swinging a laser sword. The other summoned a bolt of lightning from the sky AFTER being dead for 30 years. Which one is more powerful?
Don't give people bad ideas.
If it keeps the clowns all in one place im all for it.
Jesus Christ just drop this shit. She is no worse than Luke was in the OT and no different to any main hero in any number of blockbusters you could name. And I say this as someone who puts TLJ at the bottom of the SW pile.
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Rey definitely seems more powerful in TLJ than Yoda did in ESB.
...But let's see how good she is after 900 years.
it's very different. You couple all the mary sue aspects of her character (that she knows how to fly, wield a lightsaber, knows all the alnguages) with the fact that we no nothing about the background of the character.. coupled with the fact that we don't know what DRIVES the character (why is she doing the right thing, except because the writers need her to) and those three elements combined make her a mary sue .. and the fourth element is that the audience is detached from her, never truly worried about her or surprised when she succeeds
This argument has been had 1000 times. Those who believe that she is a Mary Sue will continue to believe so. Those who don’t won’t. It is time for everyone to just agree to disagree on this particular point. Or, as I’ve suggested multiple times, TAKE IT TO ITS OWN THREAD!
Would you prefer to continue to argue this ridiculous point on every fucking thread? Because I wouldn’t. So the options are:
1. Let it keep popping up everywhere.
2. Contain it and be able to ignore it.
I know my vote.
Yawn. Luke used the force and guided a torpedo down a narrow shaft without a targeting computer whilst travelling at hundreds of miles an hour with what - a couple of hours of basic training on the falcon - at best? The next time we see him he's moving a lightsaber with his mind, despite having no further training, then after his meeting with Yoda which lasts what - a few days, he gives a fairly good account of himself before being beaten by a top Sith Lord. There's very little difference between the characters here.
As others have said - make your own thread about it.
That was the journey.. and it was fine for the pulp story that it was.. no one minded until they made Rey later.. and people still don't mind except when they want to defend Rey as a valid comparison.. the hollow comparisons to the old trilogy that actually works as a story and also has withstood 30-40 years of time won't work.
But let's talk about Rey. There is nothing wrong with Rey. her only flaws are that she sees the good in people HAHA. there is no hardship for her, no cross she has to bear.. she is not greedy, prideful, self-centered, emotionally stunted, emotionally unstable, selfish, reckless, overconfident, naive, blinded by love, womanizing, stupid, psychotic, psychopathic, self righteous, narcissistic, inexperienced, overly ambitious,narrow minded, morally ambiguous, or arrogant. She has no vendetta, addiction, superiority complex, bloodlust, jealousy, or lust for power, she has no flaws that she could on personally, yet she is automatically incredible at every activity she does engage in, As a result she is a mary sue, as there is no room to grow (and despite what you keep saying Luke GREW as a character in those old films, both how he looked, how he acted, and how he thought) and there is nothing for her to learn, to change about herself, as she has already made it, she is better than every character at everything, Worse, she imparts lessons on the other characters, including the legacy characters, people that are far more experienced than her, It is very difficult to relate to her as a result. I'm not perfect and have never met perfection. I'm always assured that the writing will take good care of her. This is exemplified by the fact that at the end of the second film she shot down three TIES in one shot! YES and was in a great mood "I like this!" while at the same point in the original trilogy, Luke was barely alive, hanging upside down and calling for help, and his whole world had changed, Even if she earned all those traits (which she didn't) she is still all those things at base, and therefore is not a character..
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Did I forget to mention.. rey can SWIM.. and tread water..
Despite growing up on a desert planet..
Despite growing up on a desert planet..
OH AND SHE IS LIFTING A WHOLE BUNCH OF ROCKS.. LIKE TONS OF THEM, WITHOUT ANY EFFORT .. JUST A SMUG LOOK ON HER FACE.
SO?
Absolutely no different to plenty of Hollywood lead characters. Would I have preferred her character to have been handled differently? Yeah probably. But they way in which she is portrayed does not hurt either movie an any way and is the least of the sequel trilogy's problems.
How do you know there's no water on Jakku? We see a creature drinking from a big trough of it so it can't be that scarce. If people live on that planet then there has to be water on it, period. You even admit yourself we know nothing of the background of the character so she could have easily learnt how to swim. It's hardly that much of a skill is it?
When you resort to caps lock shouting your credibility drops by exactly 99.43%
In addition to what i said above the real difference between Luke and Rey is the same as the difference between active and passive .. Luke, and characters like him, have clear goals (learn the force and save the princess, or fighting crime or avenging their puppy) , characters like Rey don't.. their goals are mired in "the right thing" in the vaguest way, and by definition she doesn't ASK for anything (even Daisy Ridley when talking about Rey, admits she never asked for anything) .. and while characters like Luke might be special because they are powerful, characters like Rey are powerful because they are special. That means that characters like Luke must continually prove themselves.. they gotta keep doing the awesome shit, and sometimes they will fail, sometimes they won't .. but in the process he is constantly creating who is he is.. the mary sue, by contrast, just is.. she is just awesome by virtue of existing .. and who she is often more important than what she does .. and even if a character like Luke has natural ability, we see them working to keep that ability, it is being tested all the time .. where as Rey and the other mary sue is just born amazing, is gifted the powers when she needs them (why was Rey able to perform a mind trick without having seen it performed?) , she is given powers by needs of the plot, or she was given all her powers in her tragic and unseen backstory, nullifying the need for us to question any of it.. or the need to work that hard for any of it on screen. Even the male characters like Harry Potter than lean toward these traits, there is still a sense that they have many conflicts to overcome, goals that are specific that they want to accomplish, a sense of agency in their own story, Rey like characters will often appear weak and vulnerable when.. as far as the story goes, they are invincible. Take Han in Disney Solo movie, within two minutes of the film and after the character is established, he had three clear goals (to leave Corrilia, to get a ship of his own, and to be with the girl) where as Rey.. eh wants to leave, except she wants to stay and wait for her parents, yet she knows they aren';t coming back, and she doesn't really want to help, and she doens't really want to take Solo's job offer, and yet we know she will do the right thing despite the fact there is no reason considering her background for her to do it. Oh and about that Han solo movie, that three year time jump early on.. implies that he had some kind of training ..
yes.. actual training
or maybe my capslock button was on bro
I'm not saying that Luke is a super deep character.. it is a heros' journey.. a formula that might be as old as the hills, but popular culture really needed a new take on it when it came out. He was peppered with more complexity as the story went on.. peppered.. like sprinkled,, they didn't really radically change the simplistic aspects of his character too much.. unlike TLJ which decided "let's make Luke an asshole and totally different and fool people into thinking he is the same character because thirty years later he COULD be like that, but let's not earn it through real storytelling"..
You can edit posts, you know. Spelling, paragraphs, maybe not having three posts in a row. (The mods really frown on that last one.) These things actually can help with credibility.
fair enough.
