Or not. Let's just agree to disagree because the Mary Sue term is getting thrown around so much that it has lost all meaning.
Episode IX Speculation and Discussion
- Thread starter INACTIVESamusAranX
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The idea that no character had agency in either TFA or TLJ can be refuted by citing a single example, not that there aren't others.
Finn's rebelling against the First Order is the very definition of agency. So, QED.
Finn's rebelling against the First Order is the very definition of agency. So, QED.
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you do realize that I was being hyperbolic..
I DO think she is a mary sue, btu for different reasons.. explained upthread a few pages
I DO think she is a mary sue, btu for different reasons.. explained upthread a few pages
And yet the real Finnis never shown anywhere in the movies.. there are NO signs of traits that seem reflective of the fact that he was a stormtrooper.. he doesn't know how to use weapons or fly, he doesn't wake up early because he is used to doing it.. he seems like a reasonable guy when maybe he should act like a T-800 .. really stiff and unfeeling
And considering her upbringing there is no reason Rey would not take the portions for BB-8.. and there is no reason she would NOT think of droids as anything special
Um, what?!?
Why should Finn have known how to work a TIE Fighter? He hadn't ever been trained in that.
my point is that if he is a conditioned soldier he should still act like one..
None of the characters act as they should given their background
That's not the same criticism as claiming that he had no agency.
the topics are not unrelated. the characters were devised not to be characters but to do what the plot requires them to do
Poe does. Rey does and Finn is actively rejecting that part of himself.
But, keep going with the Mary Sue and lack of agency nonsense. At this point I can some it up thusly:
Rehabilitated? Well, now, let me see. You know, I don't have any idea what that means ... I know what you think it means, sonny. To me, it's just a made-up word. A politician's word, sonny. Young fellas like yourself can wear a suit and a tie and have a job.
No one is afraid Rey will fail at anything because she doesn't fail. Ever. I mean.. she already beat the main villain of the trilogy.. in the first movie
I'll claim that Han, Leia, and Luke in the sequel trilogy have been consistent with the characters of the original trilogy and that each plausibly behaves as they should given their backgrounds.
Been over this. He was weakened. It aren't that hard. But, some things never change.
Oh, and yes, I am afraid Rey will fail. Don't assume to speak for all.
Agreed.
i disagree. I don't think those characters were written with the thought they would all be washed out losers 30 years later. sure it could happen but it is inconsistent with the franchise.. and is not entertaining
Always in motion the future is.
it's like listenign to a musical symphony evoking springtime.. it's nice and happy. Thirty years later the same composer writes another muscaal syp[hony about springtime, but halfway through it becomes louder than a metal song and abrasive. Sure, sping could go like that, but that's not what was wanted.. and simply doing what we didn't expect is not a good reason to do it (even if they could do it). I go to SW to SW, not some cynical version / deconstruction of SW
And that's the difference between you and I. I don't see it as cynical or deconstructive. I find it highly relatable, highly mythological (I would recommend reading the three stories of Beowulf, or the original Robin Hood to get a sense of mythology) as well as a potentially realistic. It is a story that reflects the time and era that we live in, as all mythology does.
One simply cannot remain in the protected perfect myth forever.
maybe it takes more talent to write a simple character and keep him that way than to just sully him. I mean Luke was a hero (not perfect but still an archetype) and to ruin that in a film that is all kinds of messy was not a good idea.. but whatever
I would have been more interested in having future jedi characters use Luke as a decent measuring rod on which to measure themselves against ... that way you can show flaws etc without ruining the character.
The same reason I like Orville better than Discovery.. they aren't crapping all over canon
The same reason I like Orville better than Discovery.. they aren't crapping all over canon
