Precedes. I'm pretty sure you meant to say his reputation precedes him, as "his reputation proceeds him" makes no sense at all.
Do you like the Discovery Klingon look?
- Thread starter jackoverfull
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Klingons have been an allegory for Soviet Russia (TOS) or China (TNG), while Romulans have been an allegory for Mao’s China (TOS) or North Korea (TNG). Which I guess makes Vulcans Taiwan (TOS) or South Korea (TNG) and Andoria Japan (both TOS & TNG).
For whatever reason, the Klingons in S1 were supposed to be an allegory for Trump supporters - at least according on of the showrunners, although that was denied by CBS. I prefer the TOS or TNG allegories instead by far.
For the same reason any allegory is used, to tie into real life events.
well, the allegory was quite obvious in the first episode, after that not so much.
I feel like Lorca tied into better when he went full on Terran.
I guess I didn't really answer the question posed. I do like the DISCO Klingon design, just not for Klingons. I think it's a wonderful look, great costuming, intriguing starships, but just too different from the established Klingon aesthetic (s) we've seen. Certainly there have been redesigns in the past, but they adhered more to established aesthetics than DISCO did. If they had presented the DISCO Klingons as another species entirely I would be more accepting. Absent that, just explain why they look so different-which could be a cultural/religious/scientific reason, or easily explain they are an offshoot (like the Aenar and the Andorians).
Why does everything need an explanation? It's just a new take on the makeup, not an in-universe change.
Why does it need an in universe explanation? Those who know know the lore, including ENT, will know that genetic modification to correct the augment virus was the next step. The other hint is provided in ENT regarding different classes within Klingon culture, indicating, both to Archer and the audience, that Klingons have a much larger and varied culture than what had previously been presented.
I get that the highly detailed and technical fans will want that explanation but it is expository not story based which makes for poor character interaction.
Each one represented the conflicts the USA faced at the time. Right now the USA's biggest enemy is itself. Star Trek is a mirror and, like it or not, that's what the mirror's telling us.
That mirror also told us that we'll get through it. So here's hoping.
DIS did not "try to erase" anything. They just had their own version of the Klingons they wanted to portray. Following your own muse does not mean you're shitting on someone else's work.
DIS provided all the explanation we need: This is what the Klingons look like on DIS. There is no need for any other explanation, any more than there is a need to explain why the Enterprise-A had over 80 decks in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, or why the USS Voyager couldn't cross the galaxy as fast as Kirk's Enterprise in "Where No Man Has Gone Before."
Have a different creative aesthetic than you is not a "goof."
I would love to see TMP Klingons, Bennett-era Klingons, Berman-era Klingons, and Kurtzman-era Klingons all interacting with each other on SNW! (I would not want to see the return of the TOS design; that design is clearly based on racist "Yellow Peril"/"Fu Manchu"-style anti-Asian stereotypes, and those don't need to be revisited.)
I also really hope we see Chancellor L'Rell and Ash Tyler again on SNW.
My personal theory is that certain especially powerful Houses, such as the House of Kor, had sought to use genetic engineering to create even more powerful warriors, but this explanation works. In fact, they could be merged -- maybe the House of Kor experimented with turning some of their Quch'Ha members into these newer, fiercer warriors (hence Koll), but Kor himself decided not to reverse his Quch'Ha appearance until it was possible to resequence himself into a Berman-type Klingon.
Which is a totally legitimate creative impulse, but it's not the artistic goal Bryan Fuller set for Star Trek: Discovery when he made the decision to redesign the Klingon makeup. Some creative decisions are by necessity the result of individual subjective artistic aesthetics rather than any objective standard.
That doesn't make sense to me. Vulcan and Andor are part of the Federation. If the Federation is the stand-in for "us" (whoever "us" might be to the audience), wouldn't that make Vulcan and Andor counterparts to another province/state of one's own country, rather than a counterpart for an allied foreign country?
No. T'Kuvma is coded as an allegory for Trump and T'Kuvma-ism as an allegory for Trumpism.
But DIS is also clear that T'Kuvma-ism, with its xenophobia, is not a universal belief held by all Klingons, and even depicts two T'Kuvmaists (L'Rell and the Ash-ified Voq) abandoning T'Kuvma's xenophobia and belief in Klingon supremacy.
Kind of hard for the Klingons to be an allegory for a Soviet Union that has not existed for thirty years. (Also, Klingon culture in TOS had almost nothing in common with the Soviets -- it's not like we ever heard Klingons arguing that class conflict is the driving engine of history, or arguing about what kind of relationship workers should have to the means of production, or arguing that having a vanguard party to lead the people to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat is a good thing.)
I mean, the entire Terran Empire is pretty clearly also coded as an allegory for what kind of society Trumpism would inevitably lead to. Both T'Kuvmaism and Terran culture are depicted as ideologies whose rejection of multiculturalism will inevitably lead to murder and tyranny.
I absolutely appreciate that, and feel the same. I was thinking of more human-looking Klingons standing amongst the others, but I completely agree that the original designs’ roots in bigoted caricature should not be revisited.
I wholeheartedly agree, that would be great to see.
This would make sense to me. There are all sorts of explanations for any apparent Klingon biodiversity that could build on the Augment virus plot, as well as differences in behaviors and customs among the different Klingon houses.
why does everything need a major redesign?
It's art.
The Klingon design is the single best thing Disco has ever done.
The huge regression in season two to pacify fans was one of the worst.
The huge regression in season two to pacify fans was one of the worst.
I wouldn't say it was huge. All they really did was add hair.
And some Klingons were still bald (or only had pony tails)
Nah. It was stupid. More of the lame connect the dots that was Season 4.
Because they wanted to do something different. Nothing wrong with that.
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