Discovery ending with Season 5

[Sci]

Yes. The guy that like Burnham, supports the middle crew which half are female, is in favour of a Seven and Raffi show, is openminded to a number of female led shows, is misogynistic.

Congratulations, but most people who use the "Mary Sue" critique are, indeed, misogynists.

Maybe from the Starfleet point of view.

It would have been a moot issue on a Vulcan ship.

Oh hogwash. It wasn't a Vulcan ship, and her arrogance isn't any less of a character flaw just because it would allegedly have been tolerated in a counterfactual scenario. "The Vulcan Hello"/"Battle at the Binary Stars" is very clear in establishing that Michael is a deeply flawed protagonist who will need to redeem herself from her horrible mistakes. That definitionally precludes her from being a Mary Sue.

And I'll ask, once again: Who is Michael the author insert for if she's a Mary Sue?

Yes, as emphasis is strength. And authority is rooted in strength.

Here's some toilet paper to clean up all the shit you just spewed.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm pretty sure the throwaway line from TOS Fuller referred to were the lines establishing previous conflicts between the Federation and Klingons before "Errand of Mercy."

Agreed.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm pretty sure the throwaway line from TOS Fuller referred to were the lines establishing previous conflicts between the Federation and Klingons before "Errand of Mercy."

That I can believe. Now I'm on a mission to go find them.

Why? Because it's more interesting than the rest of what's currently going on in this thread.

 

[Lord Garth]

Exact quotes from "Errand of Mercy". Anyone feel free to quote this post anywhere they'd like to in the future. Especially if it comes up in the SNW Forum, since I won't be over there.

1.
Kirk: "We've both guessed right. Negotiations with the Klingon Empire are on the verge of breaking down. Starfleet Command anticipates a surprised attack. We are to proceed to Organia and take whatever steps are necessary to prevent the Klingons from using it as a base."

Spock: "Strategically sound. Organia is the only Class M Planet in the disputed area. Ideally located for use by either side."

2.
Kirk: "Well, we've been anticipating an attack. I'd say what we've just experienced very nearly qualified."

Spock: "Yes, it would seem to be a very unfriendly act."

Uhura: "Automatic all-points relay from Starfleet Command, Captain. Code One."

Kirk: "Well, there it is. War. We didn't want it, but we've got it."

Spock: "Curious how often you Humans manage to obtain that which you do not want."

3.
Kirk: "Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organized into vast slave labor camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed. Your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal colony. Infinitely better off."

4.
Kirk: "So, we're stranded here in the middle of a Klingon Occupation Army."

Spock: "So it would seem. Not a very pleasant prospect."

Kirk: "You have a gift for understatement, Mr. Spock. It's not a very pleasant prospect at all!"

5.
Kirk: "You have a lot to learn. And if I know the Klingons, you'll be learning it the hard way."

6.
Kor: "Captain of the USS Enterprise! A starship commander! And his First Officer? I had hoped to meet you in battle."

7.
Kor: "The fact is, Captain, I have a great admiration for your Starfleet. A remarkable instrument. And I must confess to a certain admiration for you."

8.
Kirk: "We have legitimate grievances against the Klingons. They've invaded our territory. Killed our citizens. They're openly aggressive. They've boasted they'll take over half the galaxy!"

Kor: "And why not?! We're the stronger! You've tried to hem us in. Cut off vital supplies. Strangle our trade. You've been asking for war!"

Kirk: "You're the ones who issued the ultimatum to withdraw from the disputed areas!"

Kor: "They're not disputed! They're clearly ours!"

The lines in that last section seem the most relevant to DSC. "They've invaded our territory. Killed our citizens." Fits Season 1, especially episodes like "The Butcher's Knife". The disputed areas can very well refer to all the space seized by the Klingons prior to "The War Without, The War Within". If it was as messy as I think it is, they might've stopped the war, but negotiations and disputes over every piece of territory could drag on for the entire 10 years leading up to "Errand of Mercy".

All the earlier lines make it sound like Kirk has first-hand experience with the Klingons. Whereas nothing Spock says indicates he does one way or the other. This fits with the Enterprise not being part of the Klingon War, but also still leaves wiggle room for SNW in case anything happens in the interim.

 

[Commander Troi]

Exact quotes from "Errand of Mercy". Anyone feel free to quote this post anywhere they'd like to in the future. Especially if it comes up in the SNW Forum, since I won't be over there.

1.
Kirk: "We've both guessed right. Negotiations with the Klingon Empire are on the verge of breaking down. Starfleet Command anticipates a surprised attack. We are to proceed to Organia and take whatever steps are necessary to prevent the Klingons from using it as a base."

Spock: "Strategically sound. Organia is the only Class M Planet in the disputed area. Ideally located for use by either side."

2.
Kirk: "Well, we've been anticipating an attack. I'd say what we've just experienced very nearly qualified."

Spock: "Yes, it would seem to be a very unfriendly act."

Uhura: "Automatic all-points relay from Starfleet Command, Captain. Code One."

Kirk: "Well, there it is. War. We didn't want it, but we've got it."

Spock: "Curious how often you Humans manage to obtain that which you do not want."

3.
Kirk: "Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organized into vast slave labor camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed. Your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal colony. Infinitely better off."

4.
Kirk: "So, we're stranded here in the middle of a Klingon Occupation Army."

Spock: "So it would seem. Not a very pleasant prospect."

Kirk: "You have a gift for understatement, Mr. Spock. It's not a very pleasant prospect at all!"

5.
Kirk: "You have a lot to learn. And if I know the Klingons, you'll be learning it the hard way."

6.
Kor: "Captain of the USS Enterprise! A starship commander! And his First Officer? I had hoped to meet you in battle."

7.
Kor: "The fact is, Captain, I have a great admiration for your Starfleet. A remarkable instrument. And I must confess to a certain admiration for you."

8.
Kirk: "We have legitimate grievances against the Klingons. They've invaded our territory. Killed our citizens. They're openly aggressive. They've boasted they'll take over half the galaxy!"

Kor: "And why not?! We're the stronger! You've tried to hem us in. Cut off vital supplies. Strangle our trade. You've been asking for war!"

Kirk: "You're the ones who issued the ultimatum to withdraw from the disputed areas!"

Kor: "They're not disputed! They're clearly ours!"

The lines in that last section seem the most relevant to DSC. "They've invaded our territory. Killed our citizens." Fits Season 1, especially episodes like "The Butcher's Knife". The disputed areas can very well refer to all the space seized by the Klingons prior to "The War Without, The War Within". If it was as messy as I think it is, they might've stopped the war, but negotiations and disputes over every piece of territory could drag on for the entire 10 years leading up to "Errand of Mercy".

All the earlier lines make it sound like Kirk has first-hand experience with the Klingons. Whereas nothing Spock says indicates he does one way or the other. This fits with the Enterprise not being part of the Klingon War, but also still leaves wiggle room for SNW in case anything happens in the interim.

Thanks for digging these up!

 

[Sci]

There's also the reference to the Battle of Donatu V from "The Trouble with Tribbles." So TOS strongly implied that the Federation and Klingon Empire had been at war before. DIS S1 strikes me as an extrapolation from that.

 

[ScottJ85]

Every now and then, I'm reminded I share a name with a popular brand of TP and I'm never quite sure how to feel about that.

 

[Commander K]

Congratulations, but most people who use the "Mary Sue" critique are, indeed, misogynists.

I don't want to relight this fire but it's getting a bit disturbing how a few people in here throw general statements pertaining to someone being racist, mysognistic, sexist etc with wide sweeping statements like this. (I've been on the end of it as well despite not being remotely white!).

"If you say this or do this, then it's likely you are most definitely this" then resulting in the other person feeling they have to prove they are not racist or sexist or xenophobic and then for other person to generally mock them. I think this statement says more about you using your negative experiences of the phrase to assume that this is the definitive term and is offensive.
Mary Sue or Gary Stu or whatever you want to describe a character is categorically not mysognistic by definition and it's used in film schools when dissecting scripts and characters.

your interpretation results in you using a metaphorical sledgehammer on a walnut when debating with someone.

 

[Quantum21]

Uh huh.

Convinced yet??

Don't be surprised by more on April 5th.

 

[Quantum21]

I think the reshoots were more about them just wanting to end the show rather than making it look like they were going to continue with a sixth season. Doubtful it has anything to do with Calypso. That ship has sailed.



It sounded like he was acting like he had inside information. That was my take on it, anyway, since he was being coy.

I may..

 

[Dukhat]

Convinced yet??

Don't be surprised by more on April 5th.

What am I supposed to be convinced about again?

 

[Tuskin38]

What am I supposed to be convinced about again?

Sounds like they're claiming their inside information was the SFA show.

 

[Dukhat]

Sounds like they're claiming their inside information was the SFA show.

Oh. Yeah. Meh. I had completely forgotten about it.

 

[Dryson]

With every new discovery, the experiment leading up to the discovery will reach its end result.

 

[mattman8907]

I wonder if they will end up using the finale to set up the Starfleet Academy series. I can imagine the Discovery being decommissioned or used akin to the Enterprise as a training vessel and the command crew being sent to the Academy to teach the new(er), new(est) generation.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I expect there will be something there to set up the Academy series, in fact I imagine there'll be a few episodes that set it up, but I doubt they'll be moving many of the Discovery crew over. They're trying to stop paying those actors, they cost too much now!

 

[Lord Garth]

I expect there will be something there to set up the Academy series, in fact I imagine there'll be a few episodes that set it up, but I doubt they'll be moving many of the Discovery crew over. They're trying to stop paying those actors, they cost too much now!

From Disco: It'll be Tilly, Vance, Adira, and Grey. Then we'll have the Cadets. Adira won't be a Cadet, obviously, but they'll be Junior Staff, like a Technician or something. Vance will probably be made the Superintendent.

 

[Harpsichord]

From Disco: It'll be Tilly, Vance, Adira, and Grey. Then we'll have the Cadets. Adira won't be a Cadet, obviously, but they'll be Junior Staff, like a Technician or something. Vance will probably be made the Superintendent.

I'm not so sure about Vance, and I think Detmer has a shot at at least becoming a recurring character.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm not so sure about Vance, and I think Detmer has a shot at at least becoming a recurring character.

Teaching the Cadets how to pilot? I can see that.

It really depends on how much finality they have to the final episode of DSC. I lean towards the adventures of Discovery will continue off-screen, thus enabling the Discovery and some of the crew to make a guest-appearance at some point.

I don't think Tilly gets reassigned from the Academy to Discovery permanently during Season 5. I think it's possible that Season 5 takes place during Summer Vacation, freeing up Tilly to be available for whatever quest they seem to be going on this upcoming season.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Please stop tormenting me with the false hope of having Owo and Detmer around as teachers.