Discovery ending with Season 5

[gvn2fly]

It really depends on season 3 of Picard and season 2 of STSNW. If their numbers are lackluster like STDs then yeah I agree Star Trek will be finished and all we will have reruns and our memories.

Wait..you have Discovery's viewer numbers? Please share...what are they? In 2021 it was Paramount +'s most watched original show according to Paramount itself. Since you posted the numbers are "lackluster" you'll be sharing them in this thread right?

 

[gvn2fly]

Exactly. It's pretty much a failure at this point. Star trek fans just don't like it. A few do but as Spock said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".Lol

Something you or Char kais failed to mention is that Discovery only aired 6 episodes in 2022..the latter half of the season. Of course it's not going to be a top acquisition driver for 2022...Its viewers were already subscribed to the service! While 1883 got new subscribers to sign on just for that show if they were fans of Yellowstone and/or watched the first 2 episodes for free on the Paramount Network and then signed up. This says nothing about total viewers. It's really not a fair comparison without more information. Of course, a new Spinoff show of the popular Yellowstone show got new subscribers to sign up on Paramount Plus...more NEW subscribers for that than than the second half of Discovery whose viewers were already signed up for Discovery / Picard / other Trek shows.

This is actually the reason why Netflix and other streamers have been canceling shows after about 3 seasons. New seasons of an existing show don't attract *NEW* subscribers the same way new shows do.

 

[Dukhat]

Something you or Char kais failed to mention is that Discovery only aired 6 episodes in 2022..the latter half of the season. Of course it's not going to be a top acquisition driver for 2022...Its viewers were already subscribed to the service! While 1883 got new subscribers to sign on just for that show if they were fans of Yellowstone and/or watched the first 2 episodes for free on the Paramount Network and then signed up. This says nothing about total viewers. It's really not a fair comparison without more information. Of course, a new Spinoff show of the popular Yellowstone show got new subscribers to sign up on Paramount Plus...more NEW subscribers for that than than the second half of Discovery whose viewers were already signed up for Discovery / Picard / other Trek shows.

This is actually the reason why Netflix and other streamers have been canceling shows after about 3 seasons. New seasons of an existing show don't attract *NEW* subscribers the same way new shows do.

I’m guessing that’s also why showrunners and the titular actors for Doctor Who tend to only stick around for 3 years or so. Tom Baker’s record is in no danger of being broken.

 

[Lord Garth]

My definition of "90s Trek" is Star Trek from the third season of TNG to the end of VOY. Technically 1989 to 2001, but let's not split any hairs. That's 478 episodes by my count. More episodes than Star Trek from the '60s, '70s, '80s, '00s, or Today have had. Combined. We don't need more '90s Trek. Anyone can go back and watch hundreds and hundreds of hours of it. They ran it into the ground. Some people today might like to pretend that wasn't the case, but it was.

All I'll say about that. Now onto something more interesting...

I wish the Doctors on Docotor Who would last longer than three seasons each. Speaking as a non-fan off on the sidelines, it seems to me like they're going through too many of them too fast. Just an outsider's point of view.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Example. Do we think a Section 31 spinoff would be possible without Yeoh may be too in-demand? Or did the success seem to mostly circle around her involvement?

It was always possible without Yeoh, but Kurtzman envisioned Section 31 being headlined by her.

Right now, it’s a question was what could replace that original vision.

Worf & Raffi spinoff in the 25th century

Bring back Alexander Siddig and do a DS9 followup.

Bring back Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating and do an early Federation series, dealing with the first encounter with the spore drive, the early days of Control and hunting down war criminals from the Romulan War?

Make a Nhan spin off, that while would piss people off that Section 31 still exists in the 32nd century, would allow for greater exploration for the 32nd century and cameos from DIS.

Or maybe they put them all together and they all take orders from Future Guy as part of the Temporal Wars.

 

[ananta]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up on any of those, FederationHistorian. Things have changed considerably now; the cancellation of DSC is very much a sign the wind has shifted. The powers that he will be incredibly conservative from this point on I think. Those are projects we might likely to see as IDW comic book miniseries, but not so much as TV shows.

 

[Tuskin38]

Uh yeeeah. Oookay.

Kurtzman’s contract was extended 3 years after Discovery started. If he or the shows that were out at the time we’re a failure that wouldn’t have happened.

You’re confusing your own personal opinion with facts.

 

[Vger23]

You’re confusing your own personal opinion with facts.

Seems to be a common thing these days.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

It's a pity the likes of Pubert and Charts have been allowed to drive an interesting discussion into the ground with heir respective bullshittery.

 

[Tuskin38]

they haven't broken any forum rules yet

 

[XCV330]

they haven't broken any forum rules yet

You don't have to, to kill a form, just make it as odious as possible. I've been a discovery fan from the first episode. I've been more than fair when I thought it sucked, but being on this subforum began to feel like nothing more then an effort of defending the show from assholes, and it got tiring, so I am not here as much.

 

[eschaton]

They were originally the ones developing it / were going to be the showrunners. They've moved on to SweetTooth on Netflix and other projects. That doesn't mean Kurtzman couldn't hire other showrunners though to do something different from what Yeon and Erika would have....or to use their ideas as a basis. I mean Discovery and Picard have all gone through showrunner changes while in production.

Technically you're correct of course, but I never really got the idea that it was really the fandom pushing for a Section 31 show, it was some combination of wanting to use Michelle Yeoh and whatever story pitch those two came up with. I just don't see where the pressure to do a show exists without either; unless it's something that Kurtzman personally wants for some reason.

Honestly, while I'm not a Kurtzman hater in general, I really, really loathe what was done to Section 31 on his watch, starting with ST:ID. Section 31 was created to be a a narrow conspiracy; a perversion of Federation ideals which highlights how those with no checks on their behavior can run amok in the interest of national security. It's been just reimagined into some sort of "cool" spy shit that everyone knows about in universe. All of the interesting political themes have been drained out, and it's got aspects of the disgusting "hard men making hard choices" themes which drenched pop culture after September 11th. I feel like unless the point of a "Section 31" show was to discredit it/take it down from within it would be treading on very dangerous ground.

 

[Commander K]

Best thing DSC did was...
Give us SNW

strong performances from Doug Jones, Tig Notaro and Jason Isaacs

Let us have the amazing Michelle Yeoh, future Oscar winner, in a star trek show.

Disco is a weird 'of its time' sci fi teen soap opera in space. Can't say many will miss Burnham arrogantly Mary Sueing her way across the galaxy and Tilly's high school ditzy valley girl 'oops aren't I clumsy' performances.

As for the rest...nothing remarkable at all. May as well have been made of cardboard.

 

[Jedman67]

I think Paramount will still want to have star trek readily available. I doubt we will get three concurrent live action series but two is entirely reasonable. Give it a year or two after DSC goes off the air - so 2026 - its a long enough time to plan new projects.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I think every baby should have the actual meaning of the term 'Mary Sue' burned into their brains at birth to spare future generations from having to read it used inappropriately all the time.

For like, the 1000th time, Michael Burnham is the direct opposite of a Mary Sue. She's not a fucking Mary Sue. Not by any actual definition of the term.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up on any of those, FederationHistorian. Things have changed considerably now; the cancellation of DSC is very much a sign the wind has shifted. The powers that he will be incredibly conservative from this point on I think. Those are projects we might likely to see as IDW comic book miniseries, but not so much as TV shows.

This isn’t the same as ENT, which was always on the bubble for most of its run.

DIS just ended, as CBS only ordered 5 seasons, as those were all paid for.

Of the live action shows airing, DIS was the most expensive show to produce. And the success of PIC and SNW has probably made TPTB wonder why they are paying so much for DIS when they can get the same quality for less with PIC and SNW.

And why would CBS continue DIS when they could not renew and get two PICs or SNWs up and running in its place? With change to spare.

The only thing that hurts a Nhan S31 show or Tilly Starfleet Academy show is if they struck down all of the DIS sets down already (and its possible they have, as I’ve read they struck the PIC S3 sets already).

 

[Commander K]

I think every baby should have the actual meaning of the term 'Mary Sue' burned into their brains at birth to spare future generations from having to read it used inappropriately all the time.

For like, the 1000th time, Michael Burnham is the direct opposite of a Mary Sue. She's not a fucking Mary Sue. Not by any actual definition of the term.

Tragic backstory? Check
Talented, overskilled saviour even for those who you would think would have more expertise? Check
Explicitly and unnecessarily loved, adored, admired by everyone? Check
Has some highly adored franchise character as a father/brother/sister? Check
Smug? Check
Emotionally overpowering? Check

Shall I go on?

 

[Lord Garth]

Tragic backstory? Check
Talented, overskilled saviour even for those who you would think would have more expertise? Check
Explicitly and unnecessarily loved, adored, admired by everyone? Check
Has some highly adored franchise character as a father/brother/sister? Check
Smug? Check
Emotionally overpowering? Check

Shall I go on?

Fucked up and got her Captain killed, then sent to prison? Check. Rightfully or wrongfully blamed for starting a war? Check. Then has to spend the rest of the first season trying to prove herself? Check. That's not what happens with Mary Sues.

Furthermore, why aren't you calling NuKirk a Mary Sue? Or even Kirk in general? Wait. I know. Let's be honest. He's a white male. Don't lie and say it's something else.

 

[SJGardner]

The male version of Mary Sue is called a protagonist.

 

[Commander K]

Fucked up and got her Captain killed, then sent to prison? Check. Rightfully or wrongfully blamed for starting a war? Check. Then has to spend the rest of the first season trying to prove herself? Check. That's not what happens with Mary Sues.

Furthermore, why aren't you calling NuKirk a Mary Sue? Or even Kirk in genreal Wait. I know. Let's be honest. He's a white male. Don't lie and say it's something else.

I find it bizarre in the star trek fandom that those who are losing an argument or general lack of intellect resort to the "because he's white/black/male" argument in one step. It's utterly perplexing. I will perhaps make it simpler for you to understand so you don't have to get into gender/race baiting. There is no need to get defensive.

NuKirk is a MarySue, it's a tentpole big budget movie designed at that time to be like a sci-fi superhero action movie. He is no different to a batman or superman scaling heights and doing death defying stunts and saving the day with one of his sidekicks.
Burnham is also a MarySue however she is in a long form serialised star trek TV show which seems to relish on her acting like being the big budget super hero that solves everyone's problems and magics her way to saving everything occasionally relying on some of her sidekicks, much like NuKirk as you call him. Her backstory tragedy is part of her...arrogance in starting a war, arrogance in getting her captain killed..."I know better than you".