Spoilers Did Picard finally ''right the ship'' with Picard season 3?

[Farscape One]

I have to agree with Sci about the ruling in "The Measure Of A Man"... he was given the right to choose because he was not the property of Starfleet.

Having said that, it's easy to see how it's implied he got full rights as an individual.

 

[Set Harth]

If there's any one quote that encompasses the philosophy of Snyder's films, it's this one: "We're already dead."

Now try a quote from a DC superhero movie.

 

[HotRod]

That was the one with the Burn and the screaming child.. lol. That's when I was done with that show. It had gotten too unintentionally ridiculous.

Have you seen Star Trek?

 

[fireproof78]

First of all, the entire thing basically shits on TNG's "Measure of a Man" to get its conflict. Remember that great Picard speech and the judge's decision about the rights of synthetic life-forms like Data? Throw all of that out of the window.

I mean, it worked within canon so as Voyager demonstrates. So, take it up with Voyager too.

More my point, regardless of execution, is that the outcome is not nihilistic.

 

[TerryTrek]

She was willing to sacrifice her life to try to save others and try to reform the Terran Empire.

She should have wanted to kill herself if she had actually reformed. She killed potentially millions (and yes, ate some of them), just motivated by racial hatred. If she truly saw the error in her ways, she wouldn't have sneaked away in the end to save her own life.

It was a silly storyline for a cartoony Space Hitler character that never really got their punishment for all the atrocities committed. Nor changed in a believable fashion, as the character still demonstrated sadism. I remember "let's make Leland scream" "I want to hear you scream"

You should try engaging with the material.

One time is enough. Obviously it's not worth engaging further with material one does not enjoy.

Ridiculous

? Like a team-up between the Borg Queen and Changelings allowing for the instant transformation of every young person in Starfleet into a mindless zombie? Ridiculous, huh?

Sometimes ridiculous can still be good, as I'm sure Terry Matalas would point out.

Interesting how that was received so much better as a satisfying serialized payoff, than the crying Kelpian child being responsible for The Burn.

Even the few Discovery defender reviewers (Jesse Gender, Trekcentral) thought it didn't work at all.

Almost as if one concept was executed with more competence than the other.

 

[fireproof78]

Burn works fine. Most TOS style ending.

 

[TerryTrek]

Have you seen Star Trek?

As a payoff for an entire season's serialized arc and for a mass atrocity that killed hundreds of thousands....

And for the mystery box of the season.

Yes I've seen Star Trek. It was on the level of Space Salamander Paris.... just extended for a whole season.


It was unintentionally funny nevertheless. I'm not surprised it was received the way it was, even from STD fans.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yes I've seen Star Trek. It was on the level of Space Salamander Paris.... just extended for a whole season.

But enough about Picard Season Three...

 

[TerryTrek]

But enough about Picard Season Three...

If Picard S3 were received that poorly, it would be something to behold indeed.

 

[fireproof78]

But enough about Picard Season Three...

Indeed. Coincidence and plot convenience certainly are nothing to carry on about.

And my new chant in the thread is Populism doesn't make it good.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I mean, at least breeding Salamanders are something we can look back and laugh about it.

25 years from now, people are going to look back and ask themselves, "What the fuck were we thinking?" Especially those who are falling over themselves about it now.

 

[TerryTrek]

Populism doesn't make it good.

Yes it does. The show was written to be popular and well-liked, and it impressively succeeded.

Who else determines whether it is good?

 

[Farscape One]

Being popular doesn't necessarily mean good. It just means it's popular.

Things CAN be popular and good. But one does not guarantee the other.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yes it does. The show was written to be popular and well-liked, and it impressively succeeded.

Who else determines whether it is good?

Ad Populum.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes it does. The show was written to be popular and well-liked, and it impressively succeeded.

Who else determines whether it is good?

Well, the story being good and engaging is my big bench mark. Popular means people like their wars tickled not that it was good.

 

[TerryTrek]

Being popular doesn't necessarily mean good. It just means it's popular.

Things CAN be popular and good. But one does not guarantee the other.

So who determines whether it is good?

The season was written to be popular and successful, and it was. Audiences and fans loved it, positive word of mouth. These are all signs of a *gasp* 'good' season.

Well, the story being good and engaging is my big bench mark.

Good and engaging by who's standards? Because if fans and audiences are tuning in and enjoying the series... they are indeed engaged by the story.

 

[HotRod]

Yes it does

 

[CorporalClegg]

So who determines whether it is good?

The season was written to be popular and successful, and it was. Audiences and fans loved it, positive word of mouth. These are all signs of a *gasp* 'good' season.


Good and engaging by who's standards? Because if fans and audiences are tuning in and enjoying the series... they are indeed engaged by the story.

I can't tell if you're asking out of genuine curiosity or being intentionally obtuse.

 

[hellojane]

Yes it does. The show was written to be popular and well-liked, and it impressively succeeded.

Who else determines whether it is good?

Again, being popular does not equal being good. Lots of awful things are popular. Lots of great things aren't popular. All being popular succeeds at is...something being popular.

A lot of the YouTubers you want us to look at to justify your feelings on Picard season 1 vs season 3 would say The Last Jedi is an abomination, yet it's one of the highest grossing films of all time. I'm guessing though popular equaling greatness doesn't work there because it only works when it can be used to justify one point of view.

 

[TerryTrek]

Again, being popular does not equal being good. Lots of awful things are popular. Lots of great things aren't popular. All being popular succeeds at is...something being popular.

A lot of the YouTubers you want us to look at to justify your feelings on Picard season 1 vs season 3 would say The Last Jedi is an abomination, yet it's one of the highest grossing films of all time. I'm guessing though popular equaling greatness doesn't work there because it only works when it can be used to justify one point of view.

The Last Jedi also lost about 700M in potential box office (compared to it's predecessor) due to poor Wom, diminishing returns.

That was big enough for Disney to get JJ Abrams back for Ep9, and JJ unsuccessfully tried to 'course correct' most of what Rian did, to a critical and box office downturn.

I go by the metrics.

I can't tell if you're asking out of genuine curiosity or being intentionally obtuse.

Neither.

I know what the answer is. He will ultimately just say 'good is what I think is good'

That's generally what someone in the vast minority says to justify their unpopular opinion. Amusingly there's a thread for this in the General Trek forum.