Spoilers Did Picard finally ''right the ship'' with Picard season 3?
- Thread starter The Overlord
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Certainly an improvement on the previous two series, although the writing and characterisation can at times be a bit silly, overdramatic and contrived.
"Hello, science man, who are you?" I love this.
I’ll admit that these past four episodes would have made for a good first movie of a modern Trek trilogy in its own right. But I never felt like the ship needed to be righted. I liked season 1. And with season 2, if they had edited the second half as well as they edited the first half (ex. condensing the Confederation episode from an originally planned two-parter to a single episode), it would have paid off. The only saving grace of that season now is that its an elaborate Q test for everyone and not just Picard. And we are seeing that pay off not just with Laris, but Picard’s perspective on family in general these past few episodes.
You new to Star Trek or something?
So people who enjoyed earlier seasons of Picard aren’t “very bright”. Good to know the tedious gatekeeping continues unabated.
I thought Season 2 descended into complete stupidity by Episode 2, with all the Confederation nonsense.
I could buy that as perhaps a fantasy world created by Q to teach Picard a lesson, but they wrote it as an actual alternate timeline.
For starters...if the 2020s were altered that drastically from the original timeline, Picard, Seven and all the others shouldn't even exist in this new timeline. It was very Akiva Goldsman-esque writing. Assumed the audience wasn't very bright, and wouldn't care how thin the 'logic' of the narrative is.
Jean-Luc and company's participation in the events of 2024 was not an alteration -- it was a predestination paradox. Jean-Luc remembers seeing, as a child, the same bullet holes in the walls of the cellar that were put there by the partially-assimilated mercenaries during Soong's assault on Chateau Picard.
I thought Season 2 descended into complete stupidity by Episode 2, with all the Confederation nonsense.
I could buy that as perhaps a fantasy world created by Q to teach Picard a lesson, but they wrote it as an actual alternate timeline.
For starters...if the 2020s were altered that drastically from the original timeline, Picard, Seven and all the others shouldn't even exist in this new timeline. It was very Akiva Goldsman-esque writing. Assumed the audience wasn't very bright, and wouldn't care how thin the 'logic' of the narrative is.
How do you know how much was Akiva and how much was Terry or Chabon? Terry has a story credit for that episode and was co-written by him and his writer from 12 Monkeys Christopher Monfette. Terry has also stated he pitched the main plots of the season, minus the Picard mother plot. It's funny that you are automatically blaming Akiva for the plots you don't like and minimizing Terry's involvement in a season you don't like.
Also, same complaint could be said about the TOS and DS9 mirror episodes. I guess Gene Roddenberry (TOS), Ira, Ron Moore, and the DS9 staff also assumed the audience wasn't bright?
They did. They told me at their private meetings.
Well, we're five episodes in and I'm enjoying this season far more than I did the previous two. For me the stories are more engaging and interesting.
Plus I freely admit, seeing where the TNG crew is now is what piqued my interest in Picard to begin with. I grew up watching TNG so I have a very strong connection to that crew and those characters. You can't blame some fans for not being interested in seeing a Picard show without the rest of the crew. It's like watching Generations and seeing Kirk without Spock and McCoy. After all the T.V episodes and movies those crews are so intertwined with those captains that it just seems odd to watch them without their supporting cast.
So here's to hoping the rest of the season is as good as the first half. Hopefully they won't kill off any more returning characters like they did in this last episode. That's really my only gripe so far. Don't bring a character like that back just to kill them off.
Plus I freely admit, seeing where the TNG crew is now is what piqued my interest in Picard to begin with. I grew up watching TNG so I have a very strong connection to that crew and those characters. You can't blame some fans for not being interested in seeing a Picard show without the rest of the crew. It's like watching Generations and seeing Kirk without Spock and McCoy. After all the T.V episodes and movies those crews are so intertwined with those captains that it just seems odd to watch them without their supporting cast.
So here's to hoping the rest of the season is as good as the first half. Hopefully they won't kill off any more returning characters like they did in this last episode. That's really my only gripe so far. Don't bring a character like that back just to kill them off.
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I would've preferred to see Elnor teamed with Worf to be honest. They're both warriors, but their characters are so different. Worf is the seasoned, mature veteran while Elnor's relatively new. Worf would have issues that Elnor is a Romulan, a race he hates, but also have to admit that Elnor himself is an honorable man.
Jack Crusher is in some ways a redo of Soji. If I knew what they were going to do to Crusher what they did to Crusher, I'd have preferred Laris to star in this season to be honest, and the MacGuffin the changelings are after could just have been Soji again.
Rios and the Stargazer could take Shaw's and the Titan's place and not much would be different honestly.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, the stuff S3 is doing right could easily have been done with the original Picard characters. The TNG characters themselves aren't what's making this season better, but unfortunately that may be the message that CBS is getting right now.
Jack Crusher is in some ways a redo of Soji. If I knew what they were going to do to Crusher what they did to Crusher, I'd have preferred Laris to star in this season to be honest, and the MacGuffin the changelings are after could just have been Soji again.
Rios and the Stargazer could take Shaw's and the Titan's place and not much would be different honestly.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, the stuff S3 is doing right could easily have been done with the original Picard characters. The TNG characters themselves aren't what's making this season better, but unfortunately that may be the message that CBS is getting right now.
That's definitely the message being sent.
I mean, Worf did acknowledge the Romulans onboard the Valdore in Nemesis were honorable. But even putting that aside, this new Zen-warrior-philosopher Worf definitely would not automatically take issue with Elnor because of what species he is.
I said earlier in this thread that this question should have been asked 5 weeks after the question was originally asked. Now that it's been 5 weeks I guess it's fair to respond. Season 3 has been great, and I look forward to seeing how it ends. Unfortunately, the "righting the ship" feels more like too little too late. I feel like a story like this could have been told with Jurati and Rios and Soji and Elnor. My original idea for the show back in Season 1 was more of Picard not only getting over his grief for Data, but finally being able to put past his experience of being assimilated by the Borg, and becoming Locutus the Messiah of the Ex Borg. That was why I was upset when they killed of Hugh. They had a story there with Hugh and Picard and they squandered it. Then if you did that that could have been the backdrop and you can have a story of Picard's later life instead of going back in time as a Q test. You could still involve the TNG characters (Even though I wouldn't) but you had an idea built in into Season 1 and it was wasted.
Did Season 3 right the ship? I guess it depends. I wish we had another season to be sure, but because this is it, I feel like the ship of Picard could have been more smooth sailing.
Did Season 3 right the ship? I guess it depends. I wish we had another season to be sure, but because this is it, I feel like the ship of Picard could have been more smooth sailing.
If anything, he'd probably use his past prejudices as an example of something he's grown beyond. But yeah, I'd have very much enjoyed getting to see those two interact. Raffi, Elnor, and Worf could have been interesting too, partially in that I think two competent, but impulsive sidekicks would have tested Worf's zen in hilarious ways, partially because he'd probably have a thing or two to say about Raffi manipulating her surrogate kid into Starfleet, given his own trials with Alexander.
Season one was great until a very flat ending. Discovery season one was great until an awful ending.
They can still fuck this up real bad. They have the time and talent to do so.
They can still fuck this up real bad. They have the time and talent to do so.
I think Season 1 was just...alright. It never quite "felt" right, a lot of the new characters and villains fell flat, Picard didn't quite feel right either and then it shit the bed in the last two episodes. From my perspective, we're at a point now we're at the very very least we've gotten a fantastic "mini-movie" from the first four episodes and a picking up an abandoned plot point from TNG with a great send off for said character. I thought at the time that the writers of season 1 were hamstrung by the higher ups and this season seemingly having Matalas with a lot of freedom to make a TNG reunion backs that up.
I mean none of the people working on Season 3 worked on Discovery Season One or Picard Season One.
But you are totally cool with the Mirror Universe, right?I thought Season 2 descended into complete stupidity by Episode 2, with all the Confederation nonsense.
I could buy that as perhaps a fantasy world created by Q to teach Picard a lesson, but they wrote it as an actual alternate timeline.
For starters...if the 2020s were altered that drastically from the original timeline, Picard, Seven and all the others shouldn't even exist in this new timeline. It was very Akiva Goldsman-esque writing. Assumed the audience wasn't very bright, and wouldn't care how thin the 'logic' of the narrative is.
I think that would have been really awesome. And while Michelle Hurd is selling her scenes with Worf and has a lot of chemistry with Michael Dorn, I gotta be honest and say that the part of their dynamic where she's somehow this impulsive hothead and he's this seasoned, patient warrior-monk don't quite ring true to me. Raffi is in her 50s. She's a grandmother. She is an experienced, seasoned Starfleet officer. She's working on her sobriety, but I don't buy that she's as impulsive as they've been selling. It would work a lot better to me if Elnor were the one being impulsive.
Also -- Worf, Raffi, and Elnor? That would be fun.
Yeah, he really is, isn't he? The secret child of a beloved TNG character with mysterious origins who has powers and abilities they don't fully understand linked to some secret from their past for which they are being pursued by hostile familiar aliens.
100%.
I think the TNG characters are adding a layer of resonance to the season just by virtue of them and their actors having such a long history -- there's a power to Jean-Luc's confrontation with Beverly that you couldn't get with Laris, because there's not almost 40 years of history there. But yeah, I think the biggest thing that's making this season work better is that the story structure itself is more cohesive and doesn't seem to have as many Goes Nowhere Does Nothing (FBI agent interrogating Jean-Luc) or Excuses to Insert Actors Whose Characters We Don't Really Want to Use But Who Signed Contracts So We Gotta Put Them In Here Somewhere subplots (Elnor randomly appearing in visions, Kore's conflict with Adam).
I do think that they could have found a way to preserve the basic "Beverly and Jack on the run, ask for Jean-Luc's help, Jean-Luc copes with having a son" story with the original PIC characters, though. I think it would be really cool to see Jack and Soji meet. "So! You're my uncle, huh?"
*shrugs* Star Trek: Picard was never going to go past three seasons anyway, so it's not like it's too late to get the show renewed or something.
I don't think being assimilated is a trauma you ever fully "put past." It will always haunt you. You manage that kind of trauma -- it doesn't go away.
As for Jean-Luc becoming a leader figure for XBs... I don't dislike the idea per se, but I'm not sure it's an idea that lends itself to the kinds of space adventure stories Star Trek is ultimately about. That kind of story is a very long-term, unglamorous political story.
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