I wasn't even born back then. But I can tell you from hindsight the two books that probably epitomized the pre-Crisis Bronze Age DC Comics era was 1) the Superman titles under Julius Schwartz and 2) Cary Bates Flash. From that pov, I can understand why he brought back Barry.
DC to REBOOT???
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I wasn't even born back then. But I can tell you from hindsight the two books that probably epitomized the pre-Crisis Bronze Age DC Comics era was 1) the Superman titles under Julius Schwartz and 2) Cary Bates Flash. From that pov, I can understand why he brought back Barry.
Going solely by his body of work, I always assumed that Geoff Johns' favorite comics were All-Star Squadron and From Hell.
Don't remember what DC Silver Age characters DiDio liked. I just remember that both he and Johns have referred to that particular era several times over past interviews.
Indeed. I find it peculiar that editors from both companies seem to harken back to their childhoods and made editorial decisions based on that idealism they liked from that particular period of time. Now they can do whatever they like as editors, I'm not saying they can't. It is just an interesting phase both companies are in right now. Personally I like stories from both the Silver Age and Modern Age...my exposure to the Golden Age isn't quite what I'd like it to be. I didn't really grow up a "Marvel" or "DC" fan. I grew up a Spider-Man fan who eventually discovered the other heroes. It wasn't about companies to me. I didn't "get" that part of it until I was much older. Probably until I started reading Wizard.
I was exclusively a Marvel reader for my entire "formative period," except for Watchmen and Sandman, which don't really count. I think I've bought four Marvel trades in the last four years, and one of them was kind of boring and so Fractiony I stopped halfway through, and The Eternals was readable but basically rather garbage, an upset considering what a success the last Jack Kirby concept worked over by Neil Gaiman had been.
So I'm trying to remember what got me into DC in the first place. It might have been Dark Knight Returns, which would have logically led to Year One, but I can't imagine what the next step would be (it wasn't monthly Batman comics, of which I proudly own exactly three, my final shot at giving Grant Morrison the benefit of the doubt, and in fairness the Irving Frasier issues of Batman and Robin are at least cool to look at).
Wait, I know what it was: Morrison's JLA, specifically New World Order, with the Martian invasion (ha, spoiler). I was taken aback at how Goddamn awesome that was. Still am, really. And you know what, the guy gets hated on in some quarters, but Howard Porter's art was pretty great. And in regards to what Admiral Young was saying, it was probably Wizard that got me into that (and I doubt I ever heard about Watchmen or Sandman--or, for that matter, Joe Sacco or Jason Lutes*--anywhere else). You know, I guess those guys really had a function, before a combination of the Internet and philistinism destroyed them.
My very first comic was a Wolverine from the spinner rack (he fought Lady Deathstrike, I think; she wasn't as dreamy in the comics as in the X-Men sequel). I hope digital gets big enough to replace what the industry lost when they went full-bore into the direct market.
*Berlin: City of Stones, better than all your supermen? Sure, although Berlin: City of Smoke, while certainly decent and ambitious, is also a meandering mess, to the extent that when my ex gave it a less than glowing review, I waited about three months to read it for fear of destroying my profound appreciation for the first book. I didn't wait long enough.
But the point is, I think we forget sometimes in all our comic book threads that there are comics beyond capes. (Literary merit aside, Sandman was a cape book, too, little different from a book about Aquaman except higher quality, fewer fistfights, and more AIDS. So is Hellblazer. And From Hell? Its protagonist is a magical supervillain!)
So I'm trying to remember what got me into DC in the first place. It might have been Dark Knight Returns, which would have logically led to Year One, but I can't imagine what the next step would be (it wasn't monthly Batman comics, of which I proudly own exactly three, my final shot at giving Grant Morrison the benefit of the doubt, and in fairness the Irving Frasier issues of Batman and Robin are at least cool to look at).
Wait, I know what it was: Morrison's JLA, specifically New World Order, with the Martian invasion (ha, spoiler). I was taken aback at how Goddamn awesome that was. Still am, really. And you know what, the guy gets hated on in some quarters, but Howard Porter's art was pretty great. And in regards to what Admiral Young was saying, it was probably Wizard that got me into that (and I doubt I ever heard about Watchmen or Sandman--or, for that matter, Joe Sacco or Jason Lutes*--anywhere else). You know, I guess those guys really had a function, before a combination of the Internet and philistinism destroyed them.
My very first comic was a Wolverine from the spinner rack (he fought Lady Deathstrike, I think; she wasn't as dreamy in the comics as in the X-Men sequel). I hope digital gets big enough to replace what the industry lost when they went full-bore into the direct market.
*Berlin: City of Stones, better than all your supermen? Sure, although Berlin: City of Smoke, while certainly decent and ambitious, is also a meandering mess, to the extent that when my ex gave it a less than glowing review, I waited about three months to read it for fear of destroying my profound appreciation for the first book. I didn't wait long enough.
But the point is, I think we forget sometimes in all our comic book threads that there are comics beyond capes. (Literary merit aside, Sandman was a cape book, too, little different from a book about Aquaman except higher quality, fewer fistfights, and more AIDS. So is Hellblazer. And From Hell? Its protagonist is a magical supervillain!)
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Yep. Kyle did well in the 90's and no finger in the ears and humming is going to change that.
Did Kyle's numbers drop? Yeah....and anyone who's read comics know that when that happens you get a new team on the book to revitalize it. They didn't do that with Kyle. They basically said "Oh well....time to bring in a character with brown hair and we'll call him "Hal Jordan" even though he is no more that character than Air Wave is. Hal was NEVER anti-authority. He was a cog who was only to happy to be a cog. He had to become Kyle to survive.
Kyle is still around because Kyle sells.
Bottom line...we have seen Hal and Barry SUCCESSFULLY replaced and that genie is out of the bottle and it will NEVER be put back in. This is not the 70's where it's unthinkable to replace those characters. We've seen it work. And when the 90's generation hit's it's nostalgia phase, and when they're the ones to replace Johns and DiDio, say good-bye to Hal and Barry again.
Ha, Air Wave. Man, that guy sucks. Stone Boy is cooler than Air Wave.
I know what got me into Batman. Watching and being a fan of the 60's "Batman" show. I loved that show and didn't understand at the time that it was meant to be a campy take on the character heh. I didn't discover "serious" Batman until my teens.
same here, only i was six or seven when the Tim Burton movie came out and thats when i discovered 'serious' Batman. i remember watching that movie as a kid and thinking, 'why is Batman so mean?'
^ Yeah after thinking about it...I think Tim Burton's "Batman" was my first real conscience exposure to serious Batman. I had been reading some old collections of the 70's Batman though. My mom's partner would get me graphic novels and collections from her library. I remember reading "The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told" when I was around ten or eleven. Or something like it.
Maybe in the past, now as far as I can work out from DCE's organisational structure, they are about the same level of management (which is what Johns is now, a manager who also does a bit of writing) and it's arguable that Johns actually has more influence because his org reach is beyond the comics. I suspect that's the other reason beyond sales that the Green Lantern stuff is untouched is because of the org politics behind it.
I think that there was a poster a couple pages back who suggested that Geoff Johns didn't care for Barry Allen or something to that effect. I dunno if I buy that. His pitch (which is included in the back of the Flash Rebirth trade) is pretty passionate and seems to have knowledge of the character and the mythos. I also remember Johns stating in an interview or something that he owned every issue of The Flash as well.
As for where Johns is in the hierarchy of the DCE..he is the Chief Creative Officer, the same thing Joe Quesada is for Marvel (when he was promoted to that title a couple of months after Johns was).
As for where Johns is in the hierarchy of the DCE..he is the Chief Creative Officer, the same thing Joe Quesada is for Marvel (when he was promoted to that title a couple of months after Johns was).
It strikes me as ironic that DC, which embraced the concept of the "legacy hero" in the 80s and 90s, has backed away from that hardcore, while Marvel, which never embraced the "legacy hero," is turning Ultimate Spider-Man into a legacy hero.
Marvel has sort of done a bit with the legacy thing, although often not for long or there's been some kind of loophole. The replacement character is often a sidekick or something like that (James Rhodes, Rick Jones, Bucky) or some kind of clone (Spider-Man, Magneto). Would the Human Torch and Vision count? Both are kind of based on 40's heroes. Human Torch (The FF version) had no real relation to the original Nick Hammond robot guy apart from similar powers, and the Vision was based on a 40's hero (Of course he was also 'sort of' the original Human Torch-but that's a whole other continuity mess there).
This article updates various writers and artists that have been left out of the loop due to the relaunch. It also gives a tiny update on "Batman: Earth One" which is still coming out (Yay) and will be formatted similar to "Superman: Earth One". No word on a release date (I'm personally betting an announcement will be made at comic con finally...yes I know I stated this last year lol...and it will be coming out in the winter)
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-mia-creators-110621.html
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-mia-creators-110621.html
Yeah, that's true. It's weird. The guys who've ascended over the past decade have tended to be people I fundamentally disagree with.
Admiral Young said:
Well, I admit, I could be dead wrong about that.
Yep. I wish his actual title were "Creative Emperor." It sounds like a lesser-loved Legion of Super-Villains member.
Okay in response to a few pages ago...here is a partial listing of my Marvel 52. There are 37 books. Still thinking of others, not including kid or the Ultimate Universe in this.
Marvel 52
1. Amazing Spider-Man
2. Spider-Man
3. Uncanny X-Men
4. X-Men
5. New X-Men (would feature all the young X-Men)
6. Deadpool Chronicles (rotating creative teams)
7. Deadpool: Mutant Assassin
8. The Wolverine (Yes, that’s right. One damn Logan book. I’m even pushing it with the two Deadpool books)
9. Captain America
10. Winter Soldier (yah I know Bucky is dead, they can bring him back again)
11. Avengers
12. Invincible Iron Man
13. Iron Man
14. S.H.I.E.L.D.
15. Thunderbolts
16. Daredevil
17. Black Panther
18. Frank Castle: The Punisher Max
19. The Incredible Hulk
20. Hercules
21. The Savage Land
22. Nova
23. Thor
24. Heroes For Hire (Rotating Creative Teams)
25. Black Widow
26. The Daily Bugle (rotating creative teams. Much like The Pulse or Alias. Starring Norah Winters. Covers various events going on in the Marvel Universe. Like Front Line, only better)
27. Ms . Marvel
28. Spider-Woman
29. From the Files of S.W.O.R.D (all kinds of extra dimensional, whacky stuff)
30. Namor: King of Atlantis
31. Future Foundation
32. Black Widow
33. Hail Hydra!! (a counterpart to the S.H.I.E.L.D. series)
34. What If?
35. The Spectacular Spider-Girl!
36. Blade: Vampire Hunter Max
37. Venom
Marvel 52
1. Amazing Spider-Man
2. Spider-Man
3. Uncanny X-Men
4. X-Men
5. New X-Men (would feature all the young X-Men)
6. Deadpool Chronicles (rotating creative teams)
7. Deadpool: Mutant Assassin
8. The Wolverine (Yes, that’s right. One damn Logan book. I’m even pushing it with the two Deadpool books)
9. Captain America
10. Winter Soldier (yah I know Bucky is dead, they can bring him back again)
11. Avengers
12. Invincible Iron Man
13. Iron Man
14. S.H.I.E.L.D.
15. Thunderbolts
16. Daredevil
17. Black Panther
18. Frank Castle: The Punisher Max
19. The Incredible Hulk
20. Hercules
21. The Savage Land
22. Nova
23. Thor
24. Heroes For Hire (Rotating Creative Teams)
25. Black Widow
26. The Daily Bugle (rotating creative teams. Much like The Pulse or Alias. Starring Norah Winters. Covers various events going on in the Marvel Universe. Like Front Line, only better)
27. Ms . Marvel
28. Spider-Woman
29. From the Files of S.W.O.R.D (all kinds of extra dimensional, whacky stuff)
30. Namor: King of Atlantis
31. Future Foundation
32. Black Widow
33. Hail Hydra!! (a counterpart to the S.H.I.E.L.D. series)
34. What If?
35. The Spectacular Spider-Girl!
36. Blade: Vampire Hunter Max
37. Venom
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Legacies didn't sell and when they introduced them people cried reverse discrimination or affirmative action. Look at the reactions to the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle, the Renee Montonya Question, the Ryan Choi Atom and the Jason Rusch Firestorm. The reactions to those ideas and characters were vitriolic and bordering on open racism.
Yes, they did. Americans in particular seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to this kind of "recasting" - the bitter, unreasoning stuff you'd read on GEnie or Compuserve when Voyager introduced a black actor as Tuvok was truly startling...and these people couldn't comprehend how narrowminded and senseless their reactions were.
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