DC to REBOOT???

[Captain Mike]

Blackest Night? Not with Kyle. He never had the issues with death that Hal or the connections with Sinestro and Abin Sur.

It doesn't really matter - over and over during the Kyle era they brought back the Corps or Hal Jordan or Hal Jordan and the Corps in some form or another that at least made for a splashy cover, and the reason they did that was that sales always rose sharply for those issues.

Rayner started out as a loser and never improved; management saw what had to be done and finally did it.

It was satisfying, after all the fuss about "getting rid of Hal Jordan in such a way that he can never be Green Lantern again" how almost effortlessly all of those changes were discarded while making the book better and more successful than it had been in ages. You've gotta wonder if the editor who thought he'd done away with Hal had ever read comics.

Who says it was an editorial decision?..you?????
I bet you are a friend to DiDio on FaceBook.....

 

[Professor Zoom]

Regarding Batgirl... avatar or not... there are pics up on Bleeding Cool.

Scroll to the bottom for Batgirl pics. Unless we're doing a Matrix type world... no. She's not an avatar by the looks of it.

 

[scnj]

Wow. That Jonah Hex art is amazing.

 

[God Magnus]

If the Batman titles are staying more or less the same, it's kind of sad that they're forcing Dick back into the role of Nightwing so soon. I was starting to like him as Batman more than Bruce, especially his interactions with Daiman.

Agreed. I've enjoyed Dick being Batman and partnering up with Damien a lot. Their interaction is different than most Batman/Robin pairings I can remember. When Bruce made it a point a while back to say he wouldn't pair with Damien because that was Dick's role now, it felt right somehow. Even if the new Nightwing adventures are amazing, I'm still going to miss that interaction.

 

[Admiral_Young]

What makes Damian and Dick work is of course the role reversal. This different approach to the Batman and Robin dynamic has made for some wonderful stories (depending on who the writer is. Morrison's run on Batman and Robin was much better than any of the current creative teams). Damian has grown significantly under Dick's mentorship. Bruce has admitted that several times since he has been back and acknowledged that things would have been different under him. It will be just as interesting to see the Batman/Robin dynamic in a father/son relationship. Bruce has had little interaction with Damian since he's been back (a fact not lost on him or the writers).

That new Batgirl costume does look like the one Bruce gave Babs in The Return. IRRC he did tell her to make any necessary modifications to it she felt like.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Hal sold more comic books since his return than Kyle ever did in the ten years that he was the star of the main GL book.

Well, if it had been working they'd have kept it.

It was working as fine as it needed to with a few exceptions but that's true for 80% of the DC stable. Batman, JLA and a few other titles always worked and others see fluctation.
Kyle and Wally as the headliners weren't doing any worse. Only editorial edict cried they must be replaced.
Blackest Night, Flashpoint are stories that easily couldn've been done with Kyle and Wally.

Blackest Night? Not with Kyle. He never had the issues with death that Hal or the connections with Sinestro and Abin Sur.

No connection with death? By this point, kid's got a refrigerator General Electric normally only sells to grocery stores.

I guess it's not really arguable that books with Hal Jordan in them sell better.* But it's no news to me that comic book fans like artless crap that reads like a D+D supplement, but with fewer recognizable human emotions. Which is not to say that Green Lantern volume 3 was even particularly good, but, damn it, Ron Marz tried.

Regarding Batgirl... avatar or not... there are pics up on Bleeding Cool.

Scroll to the bottom for Batgirl pics. Unless we're doing a Matrix type world... no. She's not an avatar by the looks of it.

That Travel Foreman dude can draw.

Also, I kind of dig the Flash's new costume mechanism, which means I should probably go kill myself for being irredeemably lame enough that I can get excited about the exact method by which Barry Allen girds his loins.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^Hal sold more comic books since his return than Kyle ever did in the ten years that he was the star of the main GL book.

Yep - although, to be fair, the quality of the writing and art has improved immensely too. Johns basically set out to explore all kinds of implications to GL that had been minimized in the past, partly I suppose because focusing on them raised questions in creating even minimal continuity between titles (like, with the Green Lantern Corps why do you need any other superheroes at all? ). Johns embraced that and has moved the whole GL saga into the center of the DCU in a way that works.

To do that, of course, first he had to undo the whole stupid "one and only surviving Green Lantern" crap. He also had to redefine Rayner a bit in order to make him a suitable GL.

 

[Captain Craig]

^Hal sold more comic books since his return than Kyle ever did in the ten years that he was the star of the main GL book.

Yep - although, to be fair, the quality of the writing and art has improved immensely too. Johns basically set out to explore all kinds of implications to GL that had been minimized in the past, partly I suppose because focusing on them raised questions in creating even minimal continuity between titles (like, with the Green Lantern Corps why do you need any other superheroes at all? ). Johns embraced that and has moved the whole GL saga into the center of the DCU in a way that works.

To do that, of course, first he had to undo the whole stupid "one and only surviving Green Lantern" crap. He also had to redefine Rayner a bit in order to make him a suitable GL.

Johns didn't need Hal to move the GLC to the position he die, he WANTED Hal.

The "one and only crap" has served characters like Superman and Martian Manhunter just fine. Granted I like the GLC concept as well but for Kyle's intro it was a great starting point. Once GLC was back Johns could've done all he wanted using Kyle, John and Guy. Hal wasn't needed, Johns wanted him just like Quesada wanted a single Peter Parker.

As you noted they just shifted their focus on writing and art, all could've been done without Hal. I'm amazed you don't realize that as you type it.

 

[Myasishchev]

To do that, of course, first he had to undo the whole stupid "one and only surviving Green Lantern" crap. He also had to redefine Rayner a bit in order to make him a suitable GL.

We do agree on this one thing. As a concept, here was nothing wrong with destroying the Corps, or with having Hal do it, or having Kyle be the Last Green Lantern... for a while.

There always should have been a plan in place to rebuild the Corps, and that always should have been the point of Kyle's series.

And as long as Hal didn't turn out to be Kyle's father, I don't see any actionable similarities.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There always should have been a plan in place to rebuild the Corps, and that always should have been the point of Kyle's series.

Yeah, and Johns gave him that - the "torchbearer."

They've effectively retired the distinction between the "old Guardians" and the reborn ones, haven't they? I notice female Guardians in "Green Lantern - Secret Origin."

 

[TemporalFlux]

Personally, I loved the 90's DC; it felt like the characters were growing and moving forward. Kyle Rayner; Wally West; Connor Hawke; Jack Knight; legacies were being passed on and allowed to grow in different ways. DC felt like a real world, and I believe the stories were better for it.

Then Geoff Johns came on the scene. Don't get me wrong; I like the stories Johns has given us; but it does seem like his mission is to regress the DC Universe. Despite working on a few legacies in JSA, Johns doesn't really seem to want the stories to grow or move forward; Johns just wants to put DC back in the box he knew when he was a kid. Hal Jordan was the star; Barry Allen was the star; Superman was defined by Richard Donner.

Which approach is better? I guess we'll see as time goes. So far, I think the execution has been "regress first and story later" (where in some cases there is a story - Hal - and in some cases actually not a story - Barry). I just believe that change for the sake of change usually doesn't work. With Flash, this is really what I feel has happened; Wally took a back seat because Johns wanted Barry back - there's no other story there.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I agree with you Temporal Flux. I like Johns characterization for the most part and his reconciliation of past continuity but I dunno about what the point of revisiting the past is when this is supposedly supposed to move the company into the future.


Here's a handy visual guide to the relaunch DC produced.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/21/a-visual-guide-to-the-dc-relaunch/

 

[Myasishchev]

^Do the circles mean anything? Like, is Hal Jordan worth more points than John Stewart? Because, frankly, that's a little racist.

I do like the John Constantine, though. It gets to the core of the character: a blonde guy with no orifice but his cigarette hole.

Personally, I loved the 90's DC; it felt like the characters were growing and moving forward. Kyle Rayner; Wally West; Connor Hawke; Jack Knight; legacies were being passed on and allowed to grow in different ways. DC felt like a real world, and I believe the stories were better for it.

Then Geoff Johns came on the scene. Don't get me wrong; I like the stories Johns has given us; but it does seem like his mission is to regress the DC Universe. Despite working on a few legacies in JSA, Johns doesn't really seem to want the stories to grow or move forward; Johns just wants to put DC back in the box he knew when he was a kid. Hal Jordan was the star; Barry Allen was the star; Superman was defined by Richard Donner.

Which approach is better? I guess we'll see as time goes. So far, I think the execution has been "regress first and story later" (where in some cases there is a story - Hal - and in some cases actually not a story - Barry). I just believe that change for the sake of change usually doesn't work. With Flash, this is really what I feel has happened; Wally took a back seat because Johns wanted Barry back - there's no other story there.

With the exception of Hal Jordan, whom Johns clearly wants to marry, I'm not entirely certain that Johns isn't just Didio's hatchetman in some regards (irrespective of his talent).

I don't think he cares about Barry Allen--I've been told that Flash v.4 doesn't have much indication of anyone caring about the words that were written in it. It certainly appeared, back in the old days before he became Creative Emperor, that he had a fondness for Wally West.

But Didio cares about Barry Allen. God knows why.

As for Superman: Secret Origin, I can't say for certain whether that came from above or from from Johns' own impulse. I have nothing specifically against it, except the human masks Gary Frank makes all his characters wear. But it is interesting to think about the idea of Superboy going to the future to hang out with the Legion. Like, on one hand, it really has the potential to mess up Superman's origin. On the other hand, Superboy is a great lens through which to view all the weird shit of the 31st century. I've been watching the LSH animated series lately and it really benefits from Superman. However no one has mentioned yet the obvious fact that even if they can take him right back to the moment he left, he'll have aged several years and probably won't be able to function at all in present-day society. Of course, it is a children's show.

Anyway, back to the Crisis on Infinite Barrys, I wanted to point something tremendously great that was just pointed out to me, that almost makes me want to pick up Red Hood and the David Allen Coes.

Specifically, Roy Harper's otherwise dumb baseball hat is purified and made perfect by its incorporation of his new superhero symbol. That symbol? A dead cat.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why would Dido care about Barry Allen? From what I've read he was more of a Marvel guy growing up. DC was barely on his radar. Johns love for the "Silver Age" is bit odd, he was born in 1973 and no doubt was reading "Bronze Age" new comics as a kid. He was 13 () when Barry kicked it COIE!!! Maybe he read a lot of reprint. I guess we should be thankful though, do we need WGBS news anchor/reporter Clark Kent making a comeback?

 

[Admiral_Young]

DiDio has given interviews in the past...and I believe in his 20 Questions segments with Newsarama he stated that he loved several Silver Age characters.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, but were they DC characters?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yes, but were they DC characters?

Well... those are the only ones he can play with at the moment.

 

[Skywalker]

If he loves Silver Age characters and was a Marvel kid growing up, then that's understandable. Marvel's Silver Age was much more interesting than DC's.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, but were they DC characters?

Well... those are the only ones he can play with at the moment.

Thats not the question though. Which comics/characters did he like when growing up and were they DC? Being the same age as Didio, I know my friends and I leaned more towards Marvel back then. Flash wasn't a book we followed.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Johns love for the "Silver Age" is bit odd, he was born in 1973 and no doubt was reading "Bronze Age" new comics as a kid. He was 13 () when Barry kicked it COIE!!!

There was a time when kids stopped reading comics by the time they were in their early teens. The cast of characters at DC were still the Silver Age characters - Hal, Barry, Curt Swan's Superman - when Johns was growing up, whether the period is referred to as the "Bronze Age" or not.