Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    For all of the internal yelling from the roof about how "important" the CW-COIE was, it has no lingering effects that any character cares about much less even wonders about, since we see how the series just roll on, as if nothing happened at all, which is very noticeable on Batwoman, with all cures for anything have been directed toward the rose.
     
  2. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She said she got someone to remove it, but clearly they weren't too thorough.

    The originally announced crossover was actually supposed to be between Superman & Lois and Batwoman.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, in the short term, but more broadly, the plan was to set up Kara & Kate's friendship as the replacement for Oliver & Barry's friendship as a recurring thread unifying the annual crossovers. That's why they made a point of building a relationship between them in Elseworlds and Crisis.
     
  4. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

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    Presumably the kryptonite bullet storyline was going to play a part in the crossover, but with that not happening - I'm curious as to where they take that story.
     
  5. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  6. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Batwoman
    Season 2 - Episode 7 - "It's Best You Stop Digging"

    Luke Fox:
    Wait--Wilder takes off in the Something-Other-Than-a-Batmobile, and the car never had a remote override and/or kill switch? Plot Convenience 101, Part One.

    Wilder/BW:
    Wilder is a largely unsympathetic character, and even her Krypto-suffering does not change that, since she--for no good reason at all--hid her wound from anyone who had the chance to help her. So much for her shitty attitude.

    Angelique running around on Wilder. Not a surprise.

    Wilder is no hero: she sold a load of absolutely immoral BS to Mary about revenge and the meaning of the Bat-symbol. Yet another scene that cannot be hand-waved away with some expected, rushed moment of restraint in the Alice situation. She is a loose cannon, but yeah, do not ever expect Luke to assert his authority and reclaim the suit, or boot her out of his business.

    Safiyah / Alice / Ocean / Tatiana: Tatiana is not so bright to just walk into Alice's obvious trap. Come on...a sewer? Only a moron would walk into that.

    So even in death, Catherine might hold the title for the scummiest character on the show, considering her dealings with Safiyah.

    Interesting--Alice was not on board with Safiyah's obsessions and cult--but wanted Ocean above all else (aside from wanting revenge against Catherine and Jacob). Ah, but a possible origin of her insasity may rest in Ocean noting that Alice needed to learn how to feel, since she never considered that he wish for her family to suffer through unending grief showed a marked lack of empathy.

    Meanwhile in another Discount Themyscira flashback. Safiyah's spins the tale of how her female ancestors had to escape a land where all husbands were abusive (who didn't see that coming) and eventually developed some connection to the yellow rose. Mmkay....

    I see Alice eventually using Safiyah's crush against her, but if this series ever leans toward realism, they will have Safiyah resent Alice for "daring" to have feelings for Ocean, which is expected, as she wiped the minds of two free human beings--not because Ocean was going to steal the flower, but due to the idea of Alice loving a man. On that note, Alice was visibly disappointed that Ocean did not want to resume his romance with her. Hopefully he returns, as he adds a fascinating wrinkle to her life.

    Jacob / Sophie: Good to see basic Crows work with Jacob and Sophie--it was the most interesting part of this episode.

    Mary:
    So, just because this series pushes completely improbable crap where Mary is concerned, she gets to dive a car she has no training to handle whatsoever. ..and of course, Luke is made to bend like a plastic knife in a microwave.

    NOTES:
    As I feared at the start of season one, Luke has now been reduced to the "nerdy black geek" stereotype, who has all but lost every particle of his natural authority of all Bat-business.

    Wilder was such a colossal asshole to everyone in so many ways--pretty much from the moment she put on the suit--that it was gratifying to see Alice (of all people) beat the crap out of her. Ah, but we know this series will perform cartwheels to redeem Wilder, starting with her putting a Plot Convenient tracker in Alice's boot. This should not work, as it assumes Alice never changes or leaves shoes behind.....

    Anyway, next week, Alice returns to Discount Themyscira, Safiyah is clearly resentful of Alice, and the Kate matter just smells like a lie and a trap (and a major letdown to BW audiences).

    GRADE: C-.
     
  7. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    ^ When Mary took off in the Batmobile I was already imagining your reaction. :)

    Speaking of, awfully convenient that they can just lose a police helicopter which as we've all seen from the news is not very easy to do.

    Just how cold was it on Coryana?! That was some major visible vapor coming from the actors breathing there. Extra points for Alice blowing twin streams out of her nostrils.

    Damn that mask and wig are pretty effective even right up in someone's face.

    I don't mind the involved plot lines even if I'm not sure the timeline all adds up. I wouldn't mind seeing a good case-of-the-week thrown in but it keeps me engaged enough to watch each week. If nothing else, I enjoy seeing Rachel Skarsten ham it up and I think Javicia Leslie always seems to be giving it a good effort.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's probably easier within the confines of the city than out on the highway. And no doubt Batman, Alfred, and Lucius set up all sorts of Batmobile escape tunnels over the years.


    It was nighttime and outdoors-ish, so that's not unreasonable. Coryana's in the Mediterranean, which means mild winters and warm summers, but it can still get fairly cold on winter nights.

    What bugged me more was the quality of the light. Even though the sun was shining brightly in the flashback scenes with Alice and Ocean, the colors were muted so that it looked more like drab Canadian daylight than brilliant Mediterranean daylight. I think they could've fixed that with color correction.

    What also bugged me was that when Safiyah had captured Alice and Ocean in the flashbacks, she'd found the bag of Desert Rose hips he'd shown to Alice, but we were shown that he had another set of rose hips sticking out of his boot, undiscovered. (I watched that bit twice to make sure I'd seen it right.) They caught him in attempted smuggling and they didn't think to search his clothes? It was right there almost in plain sight! (I also had to look up "rose hip" just now. I've heard the phrase, but I never knew what it meant before. I didn't realize roses had edible fruit.)


    I was just thinking while watching this that I wish these shows were less about doing a single serial arc and had more short arcs, like 3-4 episodes.

    I find I'm not really too engaged by the story this season. It's gone in some weird directions, the kryptonite-poisoning thing being the weirdest. I dunno, it feels as if, as soon as they brought in the new Batwoman, they started undermining her, first by revealing Kate was still alive and then by having Ryan hobbled by kryptonite poisoning (and it's weird to see kryptonite portrayed as almost as dangerous for a human as for a Kryptonian). I want this arc over with so she can just settle in as Batwoman and focus on protecting the city.
     
  9. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, maybe I'm just woozy from the time-change, but I was really disengaged with this episode.
     
  10. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe "engaged" isn't the right word but I find the show an easy watch and I don't mind that at this moment. Flash and BL have been a bit of a slog of late, I can't remember the last time Flash has been fun. (EDIT: Wells has his moments but lately it's been a bit of a drag)
     
  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, it was ridiculous for Luke to ever listen to her about anything Bat-related. He is the keeper/user of that realm, so no one in their right mind would ever give keys to an allegedly super-car to an untrained person...but the showrunners have to make her appear capable in every discipline, no matter how much a pile of BS it is.

    ...and Wilder's average driving speed is not anything beyond the tracking range of a helicopter. She only uses the streets--the same with Mary, so there would be a serious problem with trying to outrun the police.

    It does not at all. The timeline of Alice and Mouse's escape and developing a life on the streets would have been too time consuming for Alice to end up on Coryana for any extended period of time, and while she was there, where was Mouse? How did he survive, especially if he's so psychologically dependent on Alice?

    No, sticking Alice in the Safiyah drama just adds more gaping plot holes the writers could not work themselves out of if their lives depended on it.
     
  12. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    There's been a character recast for this show.

    Wallis Day (Krypton, The Royals) is the new Kate Kane.
     
  13. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A recast should've happened in the first place.
     
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  14. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think this necessarily undermines Ryan because I don't think Kate will get the mantle of Batwoman back, but it was way more convoluted a narrative direction for the season than was necessary.

    The producers also unnecessarily alienated part of their audience by going this route.

    Wallis Day was a popular fan choice for Kate back before it was announced that the Ryan Wilder character was taking over the Batwoman mantle, so it's at least nice to see her get the role in the end.
     
  15. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Batwoman
    Season 2 - Episode 8 - "Survived Much Worse"

    Luke Fox:
    Luke finally asserting himself with Sophie--essentially telling her to get going (instead of questioning him about his sources)

    Then, there was this exchange:

    Luke:
    "...and there's no shark repellent on the utility belt."

    Wilder:
    "why not??"

    Luke:
    "Because that's stupid!" --what a way to burn the 1966 Batman movie (and the Dozier series in general).

    Wilder/BW:
    "I found my voice--my inner power." Eh. Not buying that. The line was more of the character's misplaced self-affirmation, but she's not accomplished much in any personal way, but she has been an ungrateful ass since day one. Anyway, somehow, Wilder--on the brink of death as of the previous episode--is able to be effective in any capacity with a cocktail pulled from a YouTube video. Remarkably stupid.

    Leslie needs to work on her acting; her monologue-ing her attempt to psychoanalyze Alice was line an emotionless line reading that happened to be filmed.

    Oh, and in the Plot Convenience 101, Part One department, of course Wilder's plant just so happened to have a Desert Rose growing among the other species.

    Safiyah / Alice / Ocean / Tatiana: There's no reason Alice should believe Safiyah's crap about Alice wanting to kill Kate in the hope that she would receive the love given to Kate.

    Ohhh, the look of the hate on Safiyah's face / bitterness in her voice when she accused Alice of still caring about Ocean. Crime of the Century in Safiyah's twisted mind... She's so filled with hatred of Alice's relationship with Ocean that she set Alice up just to murder for the unforgivable sin of being involved with Ocean. This gives her a strong case for being the sickest villain in this series' history.

    Despite Ocean surviving the knife wound, I feel he will not fully betray Alice, as one might assume is the desire of Safiyah.

    Jacob / Sophie: ...and why didn't Jacob and Sophie take an entire team with them to the island? With numbers on their side, they could have prevented the kind of trouble they encountered in the parking lot. Did Jacob think a two-person team was going to invade an island? Plot Convenience 101, Part Two: The only reason they escaped captivity was the pure luck of Luke's EMP device shutting down the cuffs. If that failed, Jacob and Sophie would have died.

    Sophie arguing with Jacob in favor of Batwoman--no matter what "help" she's given them--should not deter Jacob from wanting to bring a vigilante to justice, but the showrunners are desperate to have everyone on board with Wilder. Sophie has no relationship with Wilder at all, so her behavior is a case of Plot Convenience 101, Part Three, 'cause everybody needs to love BW 2.0...

    NOTES: Despite playing on fans' hope that Kate would return (and considering Ruby Rose's recent statements), the mystery of Kate turned out to be a lie.

    The Kate search / lies can be taken a few ways:

    One, the DNA test and body parts were falsified by Safiyah (pretty much pulling the same kind of manipulative stunt Catherine did regarding Alice).

    Two, the showrunners just screwed over the pro-Kate fans, hoping that with Luke and Mary forced to buy Kate's death and move on, that audiences will just accept the Wilder character.

    Three: The tease--that an unconscious, masked woman beneath the streets of Gotham, wearing Kate's necklace and sporting a short hairstyle might be Kate means the showrunners could be negotiating to find a way to get Rose back on the series, even if its only for a few guest appearances. Since she was masked, if no behind the scenes progress is made with Rose (or even attempted), they can just blow this off as yet another false lead.

    GRADE: C-.
     
  16. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You must not have seen the news about Wallis Day being cast as the new Kate when you typed this.
     
  17. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And if they were going to do this anyway they didn’t do it from the start because...?
     
  18. Xerxes82

    Xerxes82 Captain Captain

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    Because they realized they could get good press by introducing a new black female character. It wasn't about character or serving the plot, it was straight up PR lean in, pure and simple. Doesn't mean it can't be made to work, and well. But it's clear that they saw their chance at some headlines so they took it and let the chips fall where they may.
     
  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Greg Berlanti thought introducing an entirely new character as Batwoman was a better narrative direction for the series and sold Caroline Dries on the idea.
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Anyone still want to maintain the delusion that the split with Rose was amicable and she's totally up for future cameos? No? Didn't think so...