Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Possibly, but it's far from a certainty. The actors will have moved on to other things and might not all be available or affordable. And we don't know how Supergirl and Black Lightning will end. The characters might not still be around anymore.
     
  2. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    Yes! I have been thinking about that shortsightedness in their setup and planning for many months.

    In addition Ryan Choi who was introduced in Crisis and there has been no indication of using him as a new Atom. With a wife and kid he does not seem like he was ever planned to replace Ray on Legends.

    In addition with the Green Arrow & Canaries spin-off apparently cancelled very little setup in Crisis seems to be followed up on.

    Superman and Lois, the rebooted timeline of twin sons, and the announcement of David Ramsey appearing on multiple series, and John Wesley Shipp appearing on Stargirl are the only specific followups to ideas introduced in Crisis we know of... so far.

    But the plan for smaller crossovers, casting changes, and series ending raises the question if we will ever see the League again in the Arrowverse again.

    David Harewood has continued to post set pictures on Instagram during the filming of Supergirl’s final season. Just yesterday that he is directing his final Supergirl episode. I would love it if he got a similar contract to David Ramsey for acting and directing multiple shows. Martian Manhunter would be an easy character to continue outside of Supergirl. Needed presence in the League. Honestly he would be an interesting addition to Legends. Being the older straight man in the middle of all the insanity on that show. Similar to how he was in the Keith Giffen Justice League comics.

    EDIT This is the only reason I get frustrated when it’s announced new DC shows for the Arrowverse are being developed for new characters. They barely utilize the characters they already have.

    Much has been made about the future of the Arrowverse. Whether it even has a strong future. The truth is more and more it’s similar to DC’s movies. It’s more of a marketing brand to get fans to watch new shows. While Greg Berlanti is the producer of all these shows, each has its own show runners. Outside of crossovers the continuity of a shared universe is very weak .Maybe they will surprise us. Most of these shows seasons were cut short due to the Pandemic. So they had little time to explore this Post Crisis world yet.

    The Multiverse is a great idea in theory. But I am skeptical that in both movies and tv DC and WB are just using it as more marketing angle than as a storytelling device. Convincing fans that all this stuff is part of a vaguely defined “Multiverse” means they will be more conformable consuming everything. If there are infinite versions of every character nothing can be labeled inauthentic. Or really good or bad...
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I like the idea of J'onn joining the Legends. It'd be a good followup to the alien-focused story arc they're doing this coming season.

    I think Superman & Lois has a lot of room for guest heroes to show up. The producers have said that Superman can operate anywhere in the world while being based in Smallville, so you could have other heroes ask for Superman's help with various crises around the world. So you could see J'onn, Diggle, Ryan Choi, any number of possibilities.
     
  4. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Given the covid-19 situation, it's pretty much guaranteed that Arrowverse show crossovers are done for the foreseeable future. They have a hard enough time shooting each show in itself right now.

    They're not going to mix cast and crew given current circumstances, and we're probably still another year or two away from any real sort of herd immunity, assuming we ever get there with all the covid-19 mutations the world is seeing.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Which is yet another reason we're unlikely to see the JL return in any recognizable form. It's frustrating that they only just set up the League and then a bunch of different things all happened to make a continuation unlikely, or all but impossible with the original team composition.
     
  6. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Seems to be a recurring thing with live action Justice Leagues. That nineties crappy TV pilot didn't make it to show, the Mortal movie got cancelled just before it started filming, and the current iterations from both the DCEU and the Arrowverse aren't likely to have another outing.
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder if at the very least we will hear of the League off camera? It’s not the best but they could at least allude to unseen adventures. Individual members for example could guest on Superman & Lois and Superman and (fill in the blank -other hero) could discuss that the others are busy on another mission. Smallville did that for its last few seasons with no other series.

    Or to use sports metaphors they could do tag teams crossovers or relays. Meaning there would be a single character who appears in all the shows to pass of the story to the next show. My suspicion is that is what they will be doing with David Ramsey as John Diggle.
     
  8. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Batwoman
    Season 2 - Episode 6 - "Do Not Resuscitate"

    Luke Fox & Wilder/BW:
    He owes Wilder nothing; she's barking about Luke and Sophie working with Alice--and how he did not call the police on her, but conveniently forgot that his own father was killed by the Crows, yet he's setting those feelings aside to find Kate. Everyone seems to be on the same page--except Wilder. Even when he tries to help her, she still gives him nothing--other than her shitty attitude, when she should remember that he could pull the plug on her Bawoman-ing anytime he chooses.

    The trend of having her spit a nasty attitude toward Luke and Sophie is getting old, which--whether the showrunners know it or not--only makes viewers long for Kate's return. Oh, now she's protecting the woman who let her go to jail. Such BS. It would satisfying to see the entire Angelique drama blow up in Wilder's face, especially with her idiotic reply to Sophie about fighting for someone you "love", as if her--a black woman who became part of the criminal justice system because of Angelique's self-serving behavior--was a noble, loving act. Her entire life was upended and kicked into criminality due to Angelique, yet Wilder still defends her.

    After talking a gas station restroom-load of crap to Luke, ultimately, she needs his help just to function, but the BS line of the episode was that quickie rundown of the various things that make Wilder a hero. It seemed forced, as if the showrunners detect that Wilder is not to everyone's liking, so they have to tell you how heroic she is, rather than...you know...having her be heroic through her actions and behavior.

    Safiyah / Alice / Ocean: back to Discount Themyscira, Ocean trained Safiyah's army, and now he admits he did try to steal one of her flowers. Alice did ask a good question: why would their memories be erased--except their relationship with each other. Alice seemed sort of let down by Ocean's "oh, crap" reaction to the memory of their shared past.

    Although I doubt the showrunners will ever explore this avenue, Alice rekindling a relationship with Ocean would be an interesting wrinkle for her character. But that also seems like a set up for her thinking she might have a chance at a slightly normal life, only for Ocean to die...

    Jacob / Mary: Oh, for---. she's still whining about being the eternal Bronze Medalist in Jacob's life. He lost a daughter (Beth), and not long after reconnecting with the other, loses her, too. Being childish, she cannot understand how running her illegal clinic poses a universe of dangers--namely her being arrested for practicing medicine without a license, prescribing narcotics--the works. Her not understanding that--and accusing Jacob ignoring her--shows that she is extremely immature.

    NOTES:

    As pointed out in the E4 review, it was unbelievable for Wilder to refuse telling anyone about the Kryptonite wound--particularly Mary, who cheerleads for Wilder around the clock (so there's support for her) and has access to medical equipment. The writer(s) have failed to adequately address why Wilder was so secretive about the wound.

    The second Wilder became Batwoman, almost everyone (including Angelique) is now making speeches about black statistics in America. Since this series was not big on that end of life in its past, it comes off as utterly unnatural, inexperienced soapboxing in a "See? We're sending a message about racial disparities...when we did not care about that in season one!"

    Now, there's three parties headed toward the island--the corrupt doctor, Alice and Ocean, and anyone looking for Kate. I can go ahead and guess someone is not going to live past the end of the seas, as it would be anti-climatic to have Safiyah be the lone casualty.

    The next new episode airs on March 14.

    GRADE:C-.
     
  9. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    You would think Mary of all people would see that Ryan gets medical insurance as a benefit to her job at The Hold Up.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Okay, at the end there... If Angelique knew her phone was bugged, why was she still carrying it?

    And that opening scene is very much not how medical research is done, but I guess that's the idea, that it was a corporation pursuing unethical methods. Still, the doctor in that scene seemed to want to do things ethically, so it's implausible that she'd do it this way, just go right to human testing without trying it on lab animals or cell samples or whatever, and with the donor kid right there in the same room.
     
  11. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I take it the man who held Mary and Jacob hostage is cross over for Amygdala who's one been one of Batman's enemies?
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, that was Aaron Helzinger/Amygdala. But I don't know if it's a crossover, since there was no mention of Batman facing him, as I think there was with Zsasz a few weeks ago.
     
  13. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Cross over as in he's normally a member of Batman's rogue's gallery and has made a Batwoman apperance just as Zsasz did.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not unusual for the Arrowverse. Supergirl faced a lot of Superman villains who, in Earth-38 continuity, had never faced Superman -- which often left me wondering just how he'd spent his time all those years. (Although the Crisis reboot means that history can be rewritten now.) And most of Arrow's Big Bads were Teen Titans or Batman villains.
     
  15. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ok, so I didn't know where to put this because its kind of a general DC CW thing, but since it directly involves Batwoman I'll put it here:

    https://bleedingcool.com/tv/batwoman-so-did-the-cw-or-antimatter-erase-kate-kane-from-crisis/

    Basically Superman & Lois had a special talking about the legacy of CW DC stuff, and a scene taken from crisis with Superman alongside multiple superheroes was edited to completely remove Ruby Rose (comparison pics are in the article, and its really blatant). It makes no sense in the context of the special to remove her, and no one else was changed. The only excuse cI could immediately think of was that they did it to "not confuse new viewers that go watch batwoman season 2", but from what I understand Batwoman Season 2 definitely acknowledges Kate Kane, so :shrug:

    A lot of people theorize that its because of some weird legal issue with her likeness, which...is weird, but not out of the realm of possibility, I guess. Regardless its an odd thing, even if its reason ends up being some mundane legal issues.
     
  16. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That CW-COIE was a disaster from moment one; whatever happened there is not being referred to in the current season of Black Lightning (thankfully), and so far, Superman and Lois' pilot made no reference to anything to indicate that a "crisis" had ever occurred. That said, Photoshopping Ruby Rose out of cast photos is just ridiculous. No one is going to forget she was involved, or how her "paragon" sub-plot was central to one of the crossover episodes.
     
  17. ToddKent

    ToddKent Captain Captain

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    I know they said there wouldn't be any crossovers this year but I naively hoped that the Batwoman Kryptonite poisoning storyline might have some kind of brief inclusion of Superman or Supergirl characters (or STAR Labs or whatever) but now it looks like they're just going to take her to that island to cure her.

    I dunno, anytime there's a Bat story that involves the characters leaving Gotham City, I tend to tune out.
     
  18. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think there was originally intended to be more crossovers between Supergirl and Batwoman, but with Melissa's pregnancy, COVID, Rose leaving, etc. they were just not possible.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    True, but they already knew about those things when they introduced Ryan and her shot-by-a-kryptonite-bullet subplot.
     
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  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Obama was Superman, so this is unlikely.

    Melanin tells sunlight to #### off.

    Ryan could be part Kryptonian.

    Black Krytonians, despite Zod on the Tv show Krypton, don't have superpowers.