B5: The "other" Delenn

[OmahaStar]

As most fans know, Delenn was originally going to be a male. During the pilot and the whole first season, "she" would have been a "he" so that when he came out of the Chrysalis, he'd suddenly morphed not only into a half-Human, but also into a female, giving the audience (and characters) an even bigger shock.

While watching "Parliament of Dreams" the other day, something occurred to me ... with Sinclair and Delenn being married (again, original version, pre-Sheridan, pre-Anna), how would this have played out?

Assume everything that happened up to that point in the series as we saw it still happened, except Delenn was a guy. The have the ceremony and Sakai asks about the looks, Sinclair confirms, and now it's male Delenn who married Sinclair, and assume Sinclair never leaves. (so Delenn is the wife, not the great-granddaughter of Sinclair)

How do you think this would have played out, suddenly having a same-sex marriage for the series lead? How would that have changed when Delenn comes out of the cocoon as a female?

 

[Pauln6]

I think the concept of the minbari being androgynous was quite cool and the transformation would have been much more shocking but I don't think Mira Furlan was that happy with the heavier make-up (it was as bad as the narn make-up and that caused a lot of problems for the actresses). She said at the time that if she'd had to wear make-up disguising her face and special effects disguising her voice, was there any need for her to be playing the part at all?

 

[Mistral]

I think the concept of the minbari being androgynous was quite cool and the transformation would have been much more shocking but I don't think Mira Furlan was that happy with the heavier make-up (it was as bad as the narn make-up and that caused a lot of problems for the actresses). She said at the time that if she'd had to wear make-up disguising her face and special effects disguising her voice, was there any need for her to be playing the part at all?

She raised a good point. Keep in mind, publicity articles called her the Meryl Streep of Yugoslavia. Why wear the makeup on that level if you're known for your acting ability? Kinda defeats teh purpose.

 

[DonIago]

Given the production difficulties B5 was faced with at the best of times, it's possible this added complication might have broken the camel's back.

Make no mistake, I would have gotten a kick out of seeing it, I'm just not sure it ever would have made it to production.

 

[Mr Light]

I've never seen the original version of The Gathering, was it the male voice in that? I forget what I read...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I really didn't see the need to alter Furlan's voice for the male Deleen. I thought the heavy masculine make-up and her natural voice made Deleen more alien. And I like the idea of a transexual character in a science-fiction series. Too bad it didn't play out that way.

 

[Triple-F]

You may find some of this of interest about the early Minbari design, and Mira.
http://barnyardfx.blogspot.com/2010/05/babylon-5-you-may-think-you-recognize.html

 

[Distorted Humor]

You may find some of this of interest about the early Minbari design, and Mira.
http://barnyardfx.blogspot.com/2010/05/babylon-5-you-may-think-you-recognize.html

thanks

 

[OmahaStar]

I've never seen the original version of The Gathering, was it the male voice in that? I forget what I read...

They filmed it with Mira's natural voice. Then, they tried a variety of ways of altering it, modulators and such, but couldn't get it quite right. JMS showed it (or part of it?) to fans at a convention, and the response was to leave it as-is.

There are only two instances of Delenn's gender being referenced. One of those was the computer saying "She says she's in the garden." So they went in and re-dubbed "he" to "she" and left it alone.

When it went to series, along with other aliens, they redesigned her makeup to appear feminine and dropped the gender subplot from her character.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Knowing that the actor playing the "male" character was female would have given away the surprise. Maybe have Delenn be genderless at first, as a natural part of Minbari evolution, and the surprise is that at some point, a Minbari becomes gendered. It's a surprise to all the other characters because they don't discuss such things with outsiders.

 

[OmahaStar]

Knowing that the actor playing the "male" character was female would have given away the surprise. Maybe have Delenn be genderless at first, as a natural part of Minbari evolution, and the surprise is that at some point, a Minbari becomes gendered. It's a surprise to all the other characters because they don't discuss such things with outsiders.

I believe that was the original intent, though Jan would be able to confirm it. Minbari were basically genderless, and they would all have Delenn's "look" ... When the plan changed, they created the rigged headbone for males, and "softer" look for women.

 

[Reverend]

It was certainly a nice idea but in a way I'm glad they abandoned it when it became clear it wasn't working. Better they not do it at all than botch it.

Mind you, I can't help but wonder if word of this abandoned concept had any influence at all on the development of Earth: Final Conflict (IIRC it came out just as B5 finished.) Now there was a pretty convincing portrayal of an androgynous alien species using female performers in heavy make-up. I think they used voice distortion too, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

 

[JoeD80]

and now it's male Delenn who married Sinclair, and assume Sinclair never leaves. (so Delenn is the wife, not the great-granddaughter of Sinclair)

How do you think this would have played out, suddenly having a same-sex marriage for the series lead? How would that have changed when Delenn comes out of the cocoon as a female?

I think they probably would have just done a traditional marriage later after Delenn had changed. Sinclair was still going to be dating Catherine up through season three.

I believe that was the original intent, though Jan would be able to confirm it. Minbari were basically genderless, and they would all have Delenn's "look" ... When the plan changed, they created the rigged headbone for males, and "softer" look for women.

The change was only going to affect Delenn, since it was specific to the human/Minbari uniting arc. It was never supposed to be a general Minbari trait.

 

[Reverend]

The change was only going to affect Delenn, since it was specific to the human/Minbari uniting arc. It was never supposed to be a general Minbari trait.

Are you quite certain about that? I ask because IIRC the Minbari assassin in 'The Gathering' had what sounded like an artificially distorted voice an the make-up design was--like Delenn's--somewhat ambiguous, gender wise.

 

[JoeD80]

Yes, I am quite certain about that:

No, I never said the *Minbari* change sex. And I didn't. I indicated that Delenn would end up female. There's a difference.

Minbari do not change sex as a rule, it was going to be a one-off with Delenn.

Here's the thing...I never said once, *anywhere*, that the Minbari change sex. When I mentioned that we were going to have a female playing a male, somehow this came up...but I *never said it*. This was just another speculation that took off and accumulated a life of its own.

Also, JMS mentioned the issue you touch on of the Minbari assassin looking similar to Delenn in a memo to the pilot production team. He stated in the memo that a problem with the pilot was that there weren't any Minbari, Narn, or Centauri background players, and some viewers confused the assassin with Delenn. In the memo it certainly sounds like it wasn't his intention for them to look similar at all, and he states an intention to address it in the series with more background aliens drawn from the main groups.

 

[Reverend]

I didn't mean to suggest all Minbari were meant to be gender swappers (though re-reading the last posts, that's exactly what I appear to suggest), just that at one stage it may have been the intent that they all had an apparent gender ambiguity about them (by human standards.) That would make sense back when Delenn was intended to change so "him" being played by a female performer wouldn't stick out so much.

Having said all that, having a listen to that scene I'm not so sure his voice was distorted after all. Still sounds off to me, but I can't pin down why.

 

[JoeD80]

Ah I see. I don't recall reading anything in particular about the Minbari's intended appearance outside of Delenn, beyond their eyes being entirely pupil mentioned in the treatment and a question of using black contacts for the effect in a memo about costumes/prosthetics for the pilot.

 

[David cgc]

Having said all that, having a listen to that scene I'm not so sure his voice was distorted after all. Still sounds off to me, but I can't pin down why.

I think most of it is just a slightly odd reading that I can now credit to the assassin being played by a nonprofessional actor.

 

[Reverend]

I think I know where I got the idea that they distorted that voice; if you listen to it at the start of season 5's opening titles it does indeed sound as if they messed with it a bit. Sounds like they changed the pitch as well as editing it to remove some of that pause and/or maybe just sped it up a little.

Mind you, IIRC there's more than one mix for that opening so it's possible one of them has a less distorted version.

 

[David cgc]

A lot of those lines are altered or possibly even rerecorded. "Commander Sinclair is being reassigned," for instance. I don't think that's even the lines from "Points of Departure" reedited, just an entirely new reading.