animated short treks coming spring 2019

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by pst, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    I actually think he's got this. For now. Every show runner goes on past their freshness date, unfortunately, but for now. seems ok.
     
  2. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    Honestly, I think it's a good idea to deal with the aftermath of the collapse of the Romulan Star Empire, insofar as it disrupts the status quo that was established by the end of DS9. It's important to disrupt this status quo because we were looking at a pretty boring Alpha and Beta Quadrant. The Dominion retreated back to the Gamma Quadrant, the Cardassians were reduced to a smoldering wreck, and the Klingons were more tightly aligned with the Federation than they ever had been before. An intact Romulan Empire would not be able to threaten the Federation/Klingon alliance in any real way. You'd need to upset the apple cart in some manner - destabilize the political situation. It wouldn't have to be someone powerful invading the region, but it couldn't be the Pax Romana that things had settled into - because then there's just small-bore stuff to deal with.

    The collapse of the Romulans does that. The maps of Star Trek have always been hazy, but it's universally agreed that the Romulans border the Klingons. I cannot see the Klingon Empire not taking advantage of the collapse of the Romulan Star Empire. There's also the question of who was on the "far side" of the Romulans from the Federation. Did some sort of civil war break out between Romulan successor states? Are their Romulan factions which are seeking unity with the Vulcans? Lots of interesting possibilities here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  3. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    I think given VOY S4, I think it's safe to assume the Romulans closest neighbor on the back end is the Hirogen. STO supports this as well.

    It's a fair guess, given that if the land-grabby Romulans were abated by the Fed and Klingons, they'd then push their boarder out as far as possible in the one direction available to them. And given the nomadic nature of Hirogen hunters, it's also fair to assume their territory is massive and straddles the Beta/Delta boundary.
     
  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    After 2387, I think the Romulans would be like Kelpians to the Hirogen. No matter how you look at it, the Romulans would be in for a rough ride because of what so many of their enemies would love to do now that they're in the state they're in. So, if Picard wants to continue Spock's work and the progress he himself made at the end of Nemesis, then I could see him sticking up for the Romulans, trying to help them if they reached out.
     
  5. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    To be perfectly honest, I WANT a "boring" status quo for Star Trek! That's kind of the main conceit of having an "optimistic" future, especially an Utopia. Hell, the entirety of TOS and TNG take place during peace-time, and (despite this forums hard-on for DS9), these two are still the most popular and well-known Trek series that exist. Star Trek is about exploring the unknown. "New civilisations" and all that jazz. NOT constantly fighting for the survival of your own!
     
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  6. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    And Star Trek really, never, ever got war or political turmoil right. DS9 probably came closest, but even their Dominion War was WWII-in-Spaaace! at best, and their Klingon-Federation war felt as low-budget generic SF-schlock as it gets. Hell, most media, in any form gets war and turmoil wrong - so Trek even has a comparatively good track record. But still - shows like nuBattlestar Galactica actually disected the topic in a way Trek is utterly incapable of - mainly, because it would stop being Star Trek.

    So yeah. Of course, all of it comes down to execution - If it's just backstory that Picard has become a somewhat busy diplomat trying to mitigate the consequences of the downfall of an Empire over the quadrant - that can work. If the main conflict of the show then is a different one.

    But if they turn the post-NEM era into a constant battlefield like Star Trek online, where every fraction constantly fights anyone over everything, and everything is about mcguffins to blow up the badguys (by, say, threatinng to blow up their homeworld with a hand-sized bomb, like DIS) - yeah....

    Tbh, right now I have abslutely no trust in The Mummy-universe & Amazing Spider-verse & Transformers-verse Alex Kurtzman(!) of all people to get that right....
     
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  7. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be fair, while the TRANSFORMER movies may not be everybody's cup-o-tea, it certainly must be doing something right to be making the BIG Mega-bucks and keep getting sequel after prequel.
    (or something like that)
    :hugegrin:
     
  8. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This TNG vs DS9 Style Debate is a real throwback. Where's Prince to say "Let's party like it's 1999"? :p
     
  9. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ask ... and ye shall receive...



    :biggrin:
     
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  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Kang, now with ridges Premium Member

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  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, I don't see how this isn't new.
     
  12. ozzfloyd

    ozzfloyd Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, bizarre.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Kang, now with ridges Premium Member

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    Of course the destruction of Romulus may just be the thing that moves Picard in a different direction ( away from Starfleet?) and not a central plot point of the series.
     
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  14. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I did not say I wanted "war Trek." We've had enough of that with DS9, ENT Season 3, and most recently DIS Season 1. But you can have political tensions without having an outright war. I mean, there was no war during TOS or TNG. But there were plenty of minor "incidents" - most notably with the Klingons and Romulans, but also with other races.

    Also, let's face it, Picard isn't just any protagonist. He is one of the most decorated Starfleet officers - a living legend in the Federation. There really are only two ways you can do a Picard story. One is to see him at or just past the apex of his power. Given he's aged out of being a captain, this likely involves a "desk job" to some degree - like ambassador or admiral. You can only "go big" with that sort of story. The other option is to have him already retired, and instead go in a very personal stakes sort of direction. But given the whole "aftermath of Romulus" thing, it doesn't seem that we're going to get that.
     
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  15. The Overlord

    The Overlord Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What about the Borg attacks we saw in Best of Both Worlds and First Contact and there tensions between the great powers both in Kirk's and Picard's time and a lot of people like the Dominion War, Voyager was a poor man's TNG and one of the weakest series in the franchise, because it was dull.

    The thing you are missing is, this is not war per say, it's a humanitarian crisis and that can bring out people's compassion, Picard can help poor Romulans in refugee camps and try to resettle them on Vulcan or other worlds. Just there would still hardliner Romulans around, but many of the Romulans we would see would be people in need. What is a better way to explore the human condition then to show compassion to a former hated enemy?

    What would prefer Picard still commanding the Enterprise and discovering anomalies when he is 85? Just pretend nothing has changed in 20 years, that's bad storytelling and I do not think it would work.

    I think what some people are missing here is this wouldn't be a war per say, its a humanitarian crisis. If a country is hit with a natural disaster and people come in to help, that's not a war, even if there are dangerous elements within that country.

    I think it makes sense that there would still be hardliner Romulans who want to rebuild the Empire, but a lot of the time Picard could be dealing Romulan refugees in need, people who want to live peacefully away from these hardliners.

    A story can be optimistic, without everything being puppies and rainbows, showing compassion and helping a former enemy is hard unless you are a Care Bear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  16. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd like to see how TV Picard deals with a Star Trek Universe after DS9 and the flip-side of the 2009 film. That seems like it would make for a chance to show how his approach would be applied to a galaxy not receptive to it. And is a parallel to a world that is currently not receptive to diplomacy and working out differences on even the smallest things. I think it's better for Picard to rise up to a challenge rather than just sipping tea in a status quo that doesn't challenge him at all.
     
  17. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, yes, I personally think reviving the character of Picard only works if it's about very personal stakes!
    Now, these personal stakes can of course be "big". IMO it could really be anything, from Return to the Borg! (big! but personal for Picard) to rescue an old acquaintance. No whatever situation Picard currently is - retired and having to "get the band together" (à la "Space Cowboys"), or a hard-working diplomat that needs to go back into action - really, that decision should fall on the showrunners, whatever story they would like to tell.

    The only thing I really think is needed, is that it's personal for Picard. And I just don't see that with the Romulans. Picard was always, always super professional with them. The only "personal" thing affecting him were maybe Sela (but bringing her back would IMO be a mistake), or Shinzhon (the less we talk about that, the better).

    I mean, Picard has a more personal history with the Cardassians than with the Romulans! Being caputred and tortured and all that. This is why IMO bringing the Romulans back as the main source of conflict just feels very, very wrong:
    Because it ISN'T motivated by the characters or their history. It's motivated by the creator - Kurtzman - wantint to preserve his own, previous work (ST09), which had nothing to do with Picard, and was intended as sort of a conclusion to the whole prime universe.

    Bringing back the Romulans as the main players is not the logical thing to do with a Picard show - it's only logical for out-of-universe, creator-related reasons. Like, imagine Bryan Fuller coming back for DIS season 3, and suddenly deciding that yes, all the Klingons are all bald again, and were only wearing wigs for season 2....
     
  18. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    What? That would be horrible! Also, ENT's "These are the Voyages" did it already. If the Picard show will be like ENT's "These are the Voyages", then I'm out...


    I would agree with the sentiment, and I would absolutely agree if they had, say, writers with the accolades of the old TNG-writers back.

    But this is Kurtzman & crew we're talking about - the show will absolutely not be taking that angle. This is going to be an action romp - like the TNG movies already tried to be. In the entirety of the Kelvin-movies, Kurtzman has utterly failed to treat the destruction of friggin' Vulcan as anything else than a personal tragedy for Spock - they utterly failed at having any kind of political or personal fall-out for any other person, let alone the humanitarian costs of it.

    At best, the destruction of Romulus is being treated as "the Romulans are splintered, chaotic and warlike again" (like the Klingons in Dis...), at worst he goes full Mad Max and has the Federation go down with it again, to do the "Fall-of-the-Federation" concept with Picard being the saviour.

    This is simply not going to treat this event like a natural catastrophy or the equivalent of how such a massive loss of live would be treated in real life. This is going to be treated like any other planet explosion in any SF previously. Not 9/11, but Alderaan/Hosnian-system at best.
     
  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Did you read the entire article? It says Picard’s connection to it is related to the time he spent there during unification.

    There is also zero hint that the Romulans will be antagonists

    Also there are new writers on the show, not everyone is from DSC
     
  20. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    My point is - as you said - this can't return to small-bore anomaly of the week stuff. One reason why Insurrection didn't work as a movie was if felt like a TNG episode with a slightly jumped up budget. Worse still, it came out while DS9 was still on the air, and deep into the climax of the Dominion War. The studio had a chance to actually integrate the TNG crew into the Dominion War (potentially boosting DS9's ratings in the final year) and make Picard one of the heroes of the conflict, and instead expressedly made him sit out the war doing other crap. They altered his most plausible character trajectory as a highly decorated captain of Starfleet's flagship for a throwaway plot which didn't befit his level of experience.

    My point is basically, there are two ways that the show could go. One way is if it revolves around Picard's job. If it does that, Picard needs to have a job which reflects his seniority (both in terms of experience and declining physical state). He can't just be a captain, or even an admiral with a ship going on a standard Trek-style adventure. Obviously there should be more here than existential threats, but it's easy to get that. Picard is a man in the twilight of his career (if not his life) and he has no children. His legacy is his work, and anything which threatens that legacy threatens his relevance.

    The other option is he's retired, retired then called back into service, or still working, but his work is just the backdrop to the story rather than integral to it (e.g., Q appears and drags him off on some adventure through time or something). This could be a more small bore/personal stakes type of story.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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