6.5X011 The God Complex (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[chardman]

I think that the Doctor eating, and apparently really enjoying, that apple was a clue of some kind. Especially in an episode with the vision of young Amy in it. Her being there, waiting, serves to remind us of her first meeting with the Doctor, wherein he discovered that his new body hates apples. And yet in this episode, they not only showed him enjoying an apple, but the camera really seemed to linger upon his enjoyment, as if to make sure we all took notice of the fact that he enjoyed it.

The question is, why would they draw attention to it, if it wasn't important?

So, are we being given a hint that maybe, just maybe, this isn't really the same Doctor that prefers fish fingers w/ custard to fresh-picked apples?

I think it's not the real Doctor we're seeing here. I think that the almost, but not quite perfect "ganger" version of The Doctor from "The Rebel Flesh" has survived, (or been intentionally re-created) and has taken The Doctor's place, while the "real" Doctor is still off searching for the infant version of Melody. And I think that what he saw in Room 11 was the real Doctor. Thus, why he says "Of course... who else?"

I also think that these two versions of the Doctor may be working together, laying a particularly ironic trap for Madame Kovarian a/k/a The "Eye Patch Lady", who has twice used "gangers" against The Doctor. The idea that he could defeat her using her own trickery against her, would be pretty sweet.

Of course, for there to effectively be two Doctors, they're really going to need two tardises. Which may well be why The Doctor... or at least, A Doctor, is revisiting Craig Owens (James Cordon) from Series Five's "The Lodger" in next week's episode.

As for this being the end for Rory and Amy as companions? Not a chance. Karen has recently announced (at Comic Con I believe) that she's already contracted for, and will appear in, series 7, so at the very least, Amy will be back. (Suck it haters!)

 

[Ghost Bones]

Terrific episode I thought. Really good. Which is bewildering because before last week, I've found every story this year to be below average at best and vile abomination at worst. Now we've had two 5 star (or close to it) stories in a row. Seems to be a bit of a trend; series 3 gave us Blink and Utopia in a row (we can add the reasonable Magic Watch Bollocks two-parter to make it a decent trio) and series 4 gave us Library Capers/Midnight (Turn Left was acceptable too). But for two stories this good together, I think you'd have to go back to Fenric/Survival.

The story itself? It walks a thin line between high concept and nonsense, but for me it's tight enough to stay in the brilliant territory. Atmosphere and emotion, and a decent idea at its center. Much as last week. It's a shame Moffat and Gatiss won't fuck off and take their shit with them; it's clear they're yesterday's men. Matt Smith's performance was terrific too. I've had him solidly at the bottom of the 11 for most of this series, but this puts him back ito top 5 territory if he can keep it up. But it's not really him; we've known he's a capable actor all along. It's what he's given and while Whithouse has almost exactly the right idea, Moffat seems to prefer a spasticated Jar Jar Binks type of character.

 

[David cgc]

So, are we being given a hint that maybe, just maybe, this isn't really the same Doctor that prefers fish fingers w/ custard to fresh-picked apples?

I think it's not the real Doctor we're seeing here. I think that the almost, but not quite perfect "ganger" version of The Doctor from "The Rebel Flesh" has survived, (or been intentionally re-created) and has taken The Doctor's place, while the "real" Doctor is still off searching for the infant version of Melody. And I think that what he saw in Room 11 was the real Doctor. Thus, why he says "Of course... who else?"

...

Of course, for there to effectively be two Doctors, they're really going to need two tardises. Which may well be why The Doctor... or at least, A Doctor, is revisiting Craig Owens (James Cordon) from Series Five's "The Lodger" in next week's episode.

I think you're on to something. The preview for next week's episode had the Doctor in his new, longer coat. We haven't seen him wearing that since he was poisoned in "Let's Kill Hitler." He changed into his tux after he had his fish fingers and custard epiphany, and he was wearing his regular jacket at the end in the hospital. The Lodger TARDIS was underneath the Cape Canaveral warehouse at the beginning of the season, so points for that coming up next week, as well. That does leave a couple of holes, like how the Doctor was actually cured (or if he was actually cured— someone pointed out that the time between the start of the picnic at the lake and the Doctor being shot was the same amount of time he had left to live after he was poisoned), and where he found the time to age an extra two hundred years (he probably wasn't lying, as he had had at least one or two adventures with River in the meantime), but I think it's a pretty good theory for how things are going to begin tying together.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Whithouse has almost exactly the right idea, Moffat seems to prefer a spasticated Jar Jar Binks type of character.

You need both of those, to stretch the actor and show the Doctor's breadth and range of personality.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

As for this being the end for Rory and Amy as companions? Not a chance. Karen has recently announced (at Comic Con I believe) that she's already contracted for, and will appear in, series 7, so at the very least, Amy will be back. (Suck it haters!)

Doesn't mean anything, Burn Gorman said he would be back for series 3 of Torchwood. Billy Piper said she would be back in series 3, so just cos Karen said she'd be back that doesn't mean she actually will be.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Whithouse has almost exactly the right idea, Moffat seems to prefer a spasticated Jar Jar Binks type of character.

You need both of those, to stretch the actor and show the Doctor's breadth and range of personality.

I disagree; you don't need the Doctor acting the cunt at all. It is not necessary.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

As for this being the end for Rory and Amy as companions? Not a chance. Karen has recently announced (at Comic Con I believe) that she's already contracted for, and will appear in, series 7, so at the very least, Amy will be back. (Suck it haters!)

Doesn't mean anything, Burn Gorman said he would be back for series 3 of Torchwood. Billy Piper said she would be back in series 3, so just cos Karen said she'd be back that doesn't mean she actually will be.

True.

Spoiler: However...

Karen and Arthur have been spotted on set for the Christmas special.

 

[Gepard]

Someone on another board claimed the Doctor in this episode was wearing the Ganger!Doctor's shoes. Can anyone verify?

 

[ITL]

I did notice a floor level foot shot that seemed to linger somewhat.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Someone on another board claimed the Doctor in this episode was wearing the Ganger!Doctor's shoes. Can anyone verify?

He was wearing boots. I think they were the ganger's boots, but they switched shoes, no?

 

[Worf2DS9]

Really enjoyed this episode for the most part. Like others, I thought the first part lagged here and there with all the wandering around the hotel and looking into rooms. But the second half was really good. I loved the scene between the Doctor and little Amelia, and the ending with the departure of Amy & Rory was great.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh my so close.

In the confidential, the cop character was called "Lucy Miller" during the table read.

(An audio companion of the 8th Doctor.)

Someone between then and filming must have reminded Moffet that Audio exists.

...

They had to leave.

He can't have a serious love affair with River if Mum and dad are looking over them the whole time.

 

[David cgc]

I don't know. Mels was already a wild child, and River went to University in Captain Jack's home era. We probably don't have words yet to describe the kind of bacchanalia she's gone through. Dating your mom's best friend right in front of her is probably pretty mild in her mind.

 

[DimesDan]

The preview for next week's episode had the Doctor in his new, longer coat. We haven't seen him wearing that since he was poisoned in "Let's Kill Hitler."

He's worn it since. He wore it last week and according to Doctor Who Confidential that was the first time Matt Smith wore it for filming.

 

[Veediotgamer]

I think that the Doctor eating, and apparently really enjoying, that apple was a clue of some kind. Especially in an episode with the vision of young Amy in it. Her being there, waiting, serves to remind us of her first meeting with the Doctor, wherein he discovered that his new body hates apples. And yet in this episode, they not only showed him enjoying an apple, but the camera really seemed to linger upon his enjoyment, as if to make sure we all took notice of the fact that he enjoyed it.

The question is, why would they draw attention to it, if it wasn't important?

So, are we being given a hint that maybe, just maybe, this isn't really the same Doctor that prefers fish fingers w/ custard to fresh-picked apples?

I think it's not the real Doctor we're seeing here. I think that the almost, but not quite perfect "ganger" version of The Doctor from "The Rebel Flesh" has survived, (or been intentionally re-created) and has taken The Doctor's place, while the "real" Doctor is still off searching for the infant version of Melody. And I think that what he saw in Room 11 was the real Doctor. Thus, why he says "Of course... who else?"

I also think that these two versions of the Doctor may be working together, laying a particularly ironic trap for Madame Kovarian a/k/a The "Eye Patch Lady", who has twice used "gangers" against The Doctor. The idea that he could defeat her using her own trickery against her, would be pretty sweet.

Of course, for there to effectively be two Doctors, they're really going to need two tardises. Which may well be why The Doctor... or at least, A Doctor, is revisiting Craig Owens (James Cordon) from Series Five's "The Lodger" in next week's episode.

As for this being the end for Rory and Amy as companions? Not a chance. Karen has recently announced (at Comic Con I believe) that she's already contracted for, and will appear in, series 7, so at the very least, Amy will be back. (Suck it haters!)

That's a really great observation, and one I noticed too. The whole problem with The Silence is the fact that ANYTHING could have happened, and we as viewers would never have noticed. Much like Amy's Disappearance. But the thing we have to realize is that even if it is a Ganger, it is still The Real Doctor in some way.

I always thought that "Let's Kill Hitler" really let go of the Melody Plot too softly. I've always suspected something being up there. And then there's "The Coat" As much as I love The Coat, why was it only worn by The Doctor after "A Good Man Goes to War"?

Everything will be revealed in "River's Wedding" and I am seriously looking forward to that. I wouldn't even throw it past them to have Amy only return in a handful of episodes in Series 7. I will be a little annoyed if they stretch the "Goodbyes" It was short and sweet in this Episode, and it would ruin the mood if they have one every other episode.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, this was a pretty good episode. I was particularly impressed with the guest cast. As opposed ot the usual "Who's going to die next?" vibe I get from these types of stories, these characters were actually enjoyable to watch. Mind you, it was kind of predictable that as the snivelling loser campaigning to give up, the alien dude was going to be the sole survivor of the guest cast.

Interesting continuity shout-out when they said the creature was related to the Nimon. Surprising too, since The Horns of Nimon isn't exactly a fan-favourite and I'm not sure how many beside classic Who buffs are even aware of what a Nimon is. But I guess if you're going to have a giant bull-man, might as well make a connection to the giant bull-men that already exist.

So Rory has no fear or faith or whatever and is therefore immune to the creature's power? That's going to go over well in his Facts Thread on this forum.

So why did the pictures of all the hotel's victims have them wearing a shirt and tie? The female PC's picture showed her dressed like that despite the fact that she was in uniform when we saw her in the episode, Howie's picture too, as well as people who probably don't wear shirts and ties, like the cat nun, or the bug-man, or the Silurian. And more importantly, why did the pictures of the Sontaran and the Judoon have them wearing their battle armour as opposed to a shirt and tie?

 

[David cgc]

So Rory has no fear or faith or whatever and is therefore immune to the creature's power? That's going to go over well in his Facts Thread on this forum.

I don't think that was the great advantage some people have seen. For one thing, considering he's a married man, he should probably have a bedrock conviction in Amy's love for him. I mean, I can understand why he doesn't (I still wince every time it starts to look like the Doctor and Amy are getting too cozy at Rory's expense), but it's not exactly healthy.

 

[JRoss]

Maybe I can't hear well, or maybe I can't understand when the characters mumble, which they've been doing a lot lately, but what was the deal with the monster "eating faith?" Why was it there again? Something about being a relative of the Nimon?

 

[Trubinator]

That theory about the Doctor seen in these last episodes being a ganger is interesting, but I don't think it would be emotionally satisfying. And besides, we've already been put through so many bloody twists this season that more would just seem artificial. They've played the "OH MY GOD!!!" too many times. I did notice the apple, but I simply took it as a sign that the Doctor has changed somewhat over the years.

 

[Samurai8472]

The doctor's either smiling at Rory's comment or he just realized something about Rory like tricking Amy into thinking that the Ganger Doctor was real.