Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Venardhi]

The idea that SHIELD wouldn't have brought him in and either trained him to use his powers more effectively for their purposes (or just locked him up) when they first found him is pretty much completely unbelievable. No way Fury would have just let an asset like that go to waste. If they had made it less impressive, like little candle flames on his fingertips or something like that, I might have bought it.

It wasn't much more than that. It was a low-level power that he had limited ability to control.

He had been given little incentive to learn to use it better. Surely SHIELD could have made a project of him and found a way to enhance his natural ability much like the Extremis did.

He burned someone to cinders in a few seconds even after the centipede formula wore off and as far as we've seen, he had only really tried to develop it beyond showing off to girls for that few hours he was in their lab.

I think you missed the shot where Chan/Scorch saw a tray of the hypodermics containing the Extremis formula, which were in the foreground of the shot and closely focused on by the camera for several seconds. It was after this that he burned his SHIELD handler to death. What that tells us is that he re-injected himself with the serum in order to give himself a new power boost. That's why he died a few minutes later -- because, as the bad guys said in dialogue, without his fireproof platelets, he'd have no protection against the serum's explosive properties.

Why was it necessary for May to inject him with the Extremis then? It was her double-dose that set him off.

So the enhanced abilities you're talking about only existed because of the serum. His own unaugmented ability was far more limited.

He is a human who is both fireproof and able to create (and control) flame from his hands. Limited or not that isn't someone you let walk around unutilized in a world where Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Widow are considered superheroes.

Who says Extremis was even the reason he was able to perform at that level? How would they even know that his powers would be enhanced? It may just as likely have been a mental block from a lack of confidence and the discouraging warnings of SHIELD. This is the most powerful naturally occurring (not engineered or the result of an experiment gone wrong) meta-human ability we have seen in the MCU. I just don't buy it.

 

[davejames]

To be fair none of the superpowered people that appeared on the show were mutations in origin.

Maybe not literal mutants, but for all intents and purposes they might as well be with the kinds of powers they have.

The asian dude in last night's ep might have gotten his power through radiation, but in the end his abilities still made him look like another Pyro from X2.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Before Hydra was in the Captain America movie (as a more international market safe Nazi pseudonym), it was the ultimate SHIELD enemy in the comics; in G.I. Joe terms, Hydra is Cobra.

As it happens, a number of the G. I. Joe characters were based on a failed pitch Larry Hama had made for a team called Fury Force, which would've been "a group of specialized soldiers who worked for SHIELD" -- a similar concept to this show, albeit more military. However, despite this, Cobra was not based on HYDRA, even though it would be natural to expect that they were. (Source[/

^Interesting back story, Christopher. I always imagined the Joe/Cobra and SHIELD/Hydra similarities to be coincidental and unrelated but it appears that Larry Hama may have bridged them in an altered form, at least behind the scenes.

Your idea about AIM being a subsiderary of Hydra on the show is also interesting. If it does turn out to be AIM, I wonder if the yellow bee-keeper uniforms will make an appearance, possibly modified for modern audiences, or if TPTB will decide to just forego the outfits all together. They may look ridiculous but I sort of hope to see them, for however briefly.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Actually, I thought May injected him with something to paralyze him, since he couldn't move afterward. If it was Extremis, then it must have just been to accelerate it, because I saw him eyeing the vials, too.

This was another great episode. I was a bit nervous about the betrayal plotline, but they handled it well. Sky looking for her parents was a nice twist and it brought Coulson back down to Earth. From his reaction, I couldn't tell if he already knows something or not (and I'm sure he won't turn out to be her father). But it was good to see him in a bit of a different light; I love his blue-skies character, but something's got to set him off from time to time. And the reactions of all the other characters was perfect as well, especially Fitz's hurt naivete. I can't wait to see the healing process begin next week-- at least I hope it will begin next week.

 

[The Old Mixer]

He had been given little incentive to learn to use it better. Surely SHIELD could have made a project of him and found a way to enhance his natural ability much like the Extremis did.

SHIELD's policy in the MCU seems to be to contain the public outbreak of superhumans, not to enable it. It's been expressed on the show, and is consistent with how eager they were to provide Tony Stark with a cover story at the end of Iron Man. Furthermore, the M.O. of having a case officer keeping tabs on the superhuman sounds like a slightly more hands-on version of their "watch but don't disturb" policy with Banner.

And the events of the episode served as a lesson in why SHIELD makes an effort to keep beings such the pyro guy under wraps. They aren't all cut out to be super-heroes, and there are others out there who would use them towards nefarious ends.

 

[Christopher]

He had been given little incentive to learn to use it better. Surely SHIELD could have made a project of him and found a way to enhance his natural ability much like the Extremis did.

I'm with Mixer on this. SHIELD probably recognized that Chan's personality didn't lend itself to handling power well, and that it was safer for everyone to encourage him to restrain his power. Raina and her Centipede cohorts didn't care how much damage he did to himself or others; they were just using him.

Why was it necessary for May to inject him with the Extremis then? It was her double-dose that set him off.

He was already starting to burn up, but he could've killed Coulson or others before he died. May just accelerated the process, in order to incapacitate him so he couldn't do further harm.

He is a human who is both fireproof and able to create (and control) flame from his hands. Limited or not that isn't someone you let walk around unutilized in a world where Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Widow are considered superheroes.

Remember what Coulson said to Mike at the climax of the pilot. What makes those people heroes isn't their power, but their character, who they are inside. Just because Chan had a superpower, that doesn't mean he could've been a superhero. As we clearly saw here, offering him a heroic role and a power boost just went to his head and made him more dangerous.

Indeed, the show seems to be doing something rather subversive here. Between Mike and Chan, we've seen two instances where the fantasy of being a superhero has been a corrupting influence or a dangerous delusion. It led Mike to nearly kill his boss when he decided the man was a "villain," and here it fired up Chan's ego and ambition to dangerous degrees. This isn't surprising, given how most of Whedon's ouevre has been about questioning or deconstructing conventional ideas of good and evil.

Who says Extremis was even the reason he was able to perform at that level?

Umm, the script? There's nothing saying otherwise except your wishes, and wishing doesn't make it so.

How would they even know that his powers would be enhanced?

Why wouldn't they? It enhanced Mike's abilities, making him stronger, faster, quicker-healing, etc. And remember, the Centipede formula isn't just Extremis, but a mix of that, a gamma radiation source, and a knockoff of Erskine's supersoldier serum. It enhances normal abilities, so why wouldn't it enhance a paranormal one?

And heck, they didn't really care whether it did enhance his abilities or not. They just wanted to lure him in to harvest his platelets. If the injection hadn't boosted his powers, they would've still found an excuse to harvest his blood.

This is the most powerful naturally occurring (not engineered or the result of an experiment gone wrong) meta-human ability we have seen in the MCU.

Actually they did say something about him being near a fire at a nuclear power plant, so it's not an innate power.

 

[Venardhi]

Unless the population of Fukushima is suddenly going to develop water powers in the MCU, that throwaway line really doesn't hold up. Radiation doesn't rewrite genetics, it may have triggered inactive genes, but being the root cause is completely off the reservation.

The simplistic cartoon logic of the science at play here is distracting to me, but clearly my problems with the background story and resolution aren't shared by everyone, that is fine. I'm happy you enjoyed it all more than I was able to.

Hopefully the next one is more satisfying.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

You're seriously questioning the science of a Marvel superpower origin story? It's clearly a world where gamma radiation, cosmic rays, etc. cause superpowers. Radiation has always given superpowers in this universe. It's clearly just building on that folklore.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

You're seriously questioning the science of a Marvel superpower origin story? It's clearly a world where gamma radiation, cosmic rays, etc. cause superpowers. Radiation has always given superpowers in this universe. It's clearly just building on that folklore.

Heh, I was about to say almost the same thing.

Almost every Marvel hero gains his powers through a form of radiation, the line about (Basically) an accident at a power plant was true to type. I actually loved that throwaway line. It felt very Marvel.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'd also guess it was done deliberately to make clear that he wasn't a mutant. People get powers in traditional Marvel fashion for others besides the X-Men.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The SHIELD Science Directorate has determined that cosmic rays are not a source of superhuman abilities.

We're FOX's lawyers, and we approve this message.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Metahuman, humanplus, posthuman, or homosuperior?

 

[Venardhi]

You're seriously questioning the science of a Marvel superpower origin story? It's clearly a world where gamma radiation, cosmic rays, etc. cause superpowers. Radiation has always given superpowers in this universe. It's clearly just building on that folklore.

The MCU is an opportunity to remove some of that cheese. This isn't the 50s and 60s and radiation isn't some mysterious magical force that can do everything and anything in fiction without question anymore. It is a lazy crutch to fall back on such an outdated trope.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

That's right, we have nanotechnology to do that now.

 

[Christopher]

You're seriously questioning the science of a Marvel superpower origin story? It's clearly a world where gamma radiation, cosmic rays, etc. cause superpowers. Radiation has always given superpowers in this universe. It's clearly just building on that folklore.

Actually the MCU version of the Hulk got his powers from an attempt to recreate the Erskine supersoldier formula, though gamma irradiation was part of the process (presumably taking the place of Erskine's "vita-rays").

So maybe there was some other factor that Chan was exposed to along with the radiation. The episode was deliberately ambiguous about the source of his powers.

 

[Trekker4747]

And I'm not convinced that "gamma radiation" in the MCU, or even in Marvel period is the same as "gamma radiation" in our universe. I think it's pretty much like the various "radiations of the week" the various Star Trek series would run into.

 

[Christopher]

^Oh, that's a given. Marvel uses "gamma" as essentially a magic incantation doing whatever the plot requires, although usually something Hulk-related.

 

[Trekker4747]

^Oh, that's a given. Marvel uses "gamma" as essentially a magic incantation doing whatever the plot requires, although usually something Hulk-related.

Yeah, but it's easy to hear "Gamma radiation" and assume that it means, well, Gamma radiation, something that actually exists and not "Gamma radiation" as in, "Eh, stick a Greek-letter or a fancy-sounding word in front of "radiation" and we'll say it can do whatever we need it to do."

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The MCU is an opportunity to remove some of that cheese.

And it appears that they chose not to exercise that opportunity. At least, to the point that davejames' complaint that they're focusing on X-Men style mutants is without merit.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I'm happy they're not trying to remove the "cheese." The "cheese" is not only inherent to the source material, but it's part of the appeal of the genre. Whenever anybody tries to remove the "cheese" in favor "realism," they only succeed in mainstreaming the magic out of it. Give me creativity and imagination, not dull reality.