My Grievances of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

So is holding nuTrek to a standard that the rest of Trek was never held to

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by just repeating essentially the same sentence? I already responded to this.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

So what exactly is so believable about how TOS handled rank and command in comparison to the Abramsverse?

Sorry, were either of your examples actually promoted to the rank of Captain? And were they so from the rank of cadet? Your question answers itself.

Actually, rank of Lieutenant as clearly seen in an on-screen graphic (much like Saavik in The Wrath of Khan).

Since you can't or won't answer the question posed:

Starfleet is obviously comfortable with the thought of inexperienced junior officers commanding capital ships or else they wouldn't be in position to command them to begin with.

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

The Hornblower nonsense is post TOS PR bullshit.

Actually it's in the original series writer's bible. Nice try.

In reference to Robert April, not Kirk. Kirk is more in line with what the studio wanted. Gene himself said the studio was pissed cause they didn't get a western in space, and he had to revamp the show into an action and adventure series or it was done for.

 

[Opus]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

So is holding nuTrek to a standard that the rest of Trek was never held to

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by just repeating essentially the same sentence? I already responded to this.

No you haven't, because you keep clipping my posts, as you do to other's posts here.

You contend that Trek has followed military protocol better in the past than nuTrek. Untrue. Military personnel would be moved in and out of all command structures for all the shows, save VOY, instead of continuing to work together as long as they did.

But you enjoy cherrypicking. That's fine.

Don't be surprised as people keep calling you on your bullshit.

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Since you can't or won't answer the question posed

Please don't resort to distortion and dishonesty like this. I've been very clear that I am talking about relative believability. Starfleet being willing to have Lieutenants act as first officer is in no way comparable to promoting cadets to overall charge of an entire command. It's extremely clear which of these more thoroughly violates believability, and I think you're dancing around that.

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

No you haven't., because you keep clipping my posts

I'm not obligated to quote your entire post to respond to relevant parts of it. This is also a lame avoidance tactic.

In reference to Robert April, not Kirk.

Quite specifically in reference to Kirk, actually. I can quote the passage for you if you like.

 

[Opus]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Kirk was a Lt.

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Kirk was a Lt.

In TOS? At one point in his prior career yes. In the 2009 film? I'm pretty sure he's a cadet at the start and by the end. Maybe I'm misremembering that.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Since you can't or won't answer the question posed

Please don't resort to distortion and dishonesty like this. I've been very clear that I am talking about relative believability. Starfleet being willing to have Lieutenants act as first officer is in no way comparable to promoting cadets to overall charge of an entire command. It's extremely clear which of these more thoroughly violates believability, and I think you're dancing around that.

It seems that you're the one dancing around the believability question because there has been more than enough evidence posted that Starfleet acts however a particular story dictates it needs it to act.

The script for The Menagerie requires that Spock get off scott-free for kidnapping, stealing a starship and going to the planet of death. I'm not sure how many real-world military would react in the same manner. Maybe you can enlighten me?

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Kirk was a Lt.

In TOS? At one point in his prior career yes. In the 2009 film? I'm pretty sure he's a cadet at the start and by the end. Maybe I'm misremembering that.

You can be a Lt. and still be a cadet in Trek; we've seen it before.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Kirk was a Lt.

In TOS? At one point in his prior career yes. In the 2009 film? I'm pretty sure he's a cadet at the start and by the end. Maybe I'm misremembering that.

Do we have any proof at all that Kirk went through the Lt. Commander and Commander ranks before getting command of the Enterprise?

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Do we have any proof at all that Kirk went through the Lt. Commander and Commander ranks before getting command of the Enterprise?

Why would we need it, exactly? Why would the question even come up? No great fuss is made of Kirk as being Awesomely Special in the actual series, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have come to his post via a reasonably "normal" chain of command.

 

[Opus]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Consider - Kirk was one of the youngest to make Capt. in the Prime Universe, so it is plausible that he skipped a few ranks.

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

It seems that you're the one dancing around the believability question because there has been more than enough evidence posted that Starfleet acts however a particular story dictates it needs it to act.

This has already been asked and answered. If we're deteriorating into desperate repetition already, I think this has run its course. Have a nice day.

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Consider - Kirk was one of the youngest to make Capt. in the Prime Universe, so it is plausible that he skipped a few ranks.

(Again, the "youngest-ever Captain" business is a later retcon. It's never mentioned or made any fuss of in the actual show.)

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Why would we need it, exactly? Why would the question even come up? No great fuss is made of Kirk as being Awesomely Special in the actual series, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have come to his post via a reasonably "normal" chain of command.

Because at the age of 32 ("The Deadly Years") he was already in command of a Constitution-class starship and was obviously much younger than every other captain we saw in the series.

So Kirk was obviously "Awesomely Special" in the Prime universe too, at least some degree and his career path to captain was likely shorter than his peers.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

This has already been asked and answered. If we're deteriorating into desperate repetition already, I think this has run its course. Have a nice day.

I apologize that the facts don't agree with your interpretation of Star Trek.

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Because at the age of 32 ("The Deadly Years") he was already in command of a Constitution-class starship and was obviously much younger than every other captain we saw in the series.

How many Captains was that? It's not exactly a large sample, I remember Ron Tracie and Commodore (not Captain) Deckard (and that one guy we see in "The Ultimate Computer").

Captains in the actual American navy on which Starfleet was modeled have won battlefield commissions to Captain at ages as young as 25. So it is possible that Kirk could have leapfrogged some ranks that way. But it's just as possible that he came to the rank by just being a good, driven officer and climbing the ranks. There's nothing unbelievable about that, by contrast with what happens at the end of the 2009 film.

 

[Opus]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

It seems that you're the one dancing around the believability question because there has been more than enough evidence posted that Starfleet acts however a particular story dictates it needs it to act.

This has already been asked

Yes, it has. And we're still waiting for you to actually answer. The dancing is rather cute, though.

Have a nice day.

I already am, thank you!

 

[BigJake]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

I apologize that the facts don't agree with your interpretation of Star Trek.

I dub you Commander Burns, on account of all the burnage.