Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...
Sulu was a qualified pilot, nothing says he wasn't trained.
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, as the copy of the script I can find online differs significantly from the final film, but wasn't there a line right after Sulu screwed up the Enterprises launch that said he'd been trained to fly shuttlecraft (And therefore, not Starships)?
McCoy was a doctor before he even joined Starfleet. Scotty was dabbling in super-advanced transwarp technology six months before coming aboard. Spock graduated from the academy four years prior to the attack on Vulcan and was "one of [Starfleet's] most distinguished graduates". How they reached their posts were abnormal, but all were qualified.
Those three were qualified, yes. Any one of them would make perfect sense as an exception to the rule, coincidence, whatever. Except for the fact that Scotty apparently has enemies high up who don't want him to succeed. But hey, maybe they forgot about him or whatever. All three of them together, however, achieving their positions in such strange circumstances sets up a story which is fairly hard to believe to begin with - and becomes impossible to believe on Kirk's fantastic promotion.
Kirk may have lucked his way to the top (although he was supposedly a genius and was acing the academy in 3 years), but I'd say he proved himself.
In terms of the story, maybe so. In terms of proving to Starfleet command he was clearly ready to take full control of a starship? Lucking your way to the top is pretty much the exact opposite of proving yourself.
Take a look at airport security post-9/11. Take a look at the Enterprise-D and Starfleet 22 years after Narendra III (where one ship made the difference) in "Yesterday's Enterprise"
The Enterprise D was in a perpetual war with the Klingons. The Narada was an isolated incident, no different than a thousand other isolated incidents where starships or even entire colonies were destroyed by random alien of the week. Starfleet has never reacted to any of those incidents by changing its fundamental rules of operation.
Were they? What did Cap do that showed "him capable of the kind of leadership needed for the mission he was running?" How were his physical abilities "both unique and key to the success of those missions"? Every member of the Howling Commandos had more combat experience and at least two were in leader ship roles already. The Howlers were also going on the exact same missions as Cap following their rescue ( which they aided in). The only story logic that demands Rogers be given a leadership role and the rank of Captain is the fact "Captain America" is in the film's title.
He successfully infiltrated and destroyed a highly advanced Hydra base - and retrieved important intelligence from it as well. Every mission he's shown leading is about successfully infiltrating and destroying Hydra bases and their technology (except the kidnapping of Dr. Zola, which is really an even simpler type of mission).
When the job description is: must be able to type 80 wpm, then all you have to show to prove someone deserves the job is that they can type 80 wpm. Unfortunately for ST09, the job of Starship Captain is a hell of a lot more complicated than handling one specific crisis - even if you accept the idea that Kirk deserves most of the credit for saving Earth in the first place.
You might have a point in that cap didn't necessarily have to be the leader - even though he had shown himself capable of leading that kind of action - but if his physical abilities didn't make the difference in making that kind of mission possible, why did the apparent expert, Col. Philips, believe the mission completely impossible to achieve, even with an entire battalion running around the base?
1) The film tells us via Pike, that Kirk has a genius level intellect.
But the film doesn't really prove to us that Pike actually knows what he's talking about.
2) Kirk, presumably aided by Galia, rewrote the Kobyashi Maru Test. (The same action that in the Prime Universe gets him a commendation for original thinking)
That's one. Though not a particularly impressive reason for promotion.
3) Kirk puts the pieces together that saves the Enterprise from the fate of the rest of the fleet at Vulcan. The only other person who could have but it together was Pike. But he seemed to lack the data Uhura provided.
That's the only moment that stood out to me, but, as I already said, it doesn't constitute insightfulness so much as 'working memory'. Still not a reason to consider Kirk at all extraordinary, much less worthy of the promotion he got. Pike, Spock, or Uhura even would all have made the same connection if they had been allowed by the plot to have the same information.
4) Kirk decides not to go to the Laurentian system and to Pike.
Classic Kirk gut feeling. As the case always has been in Star Trek, his gut feeling proves correct, but that does not magically turn it into some kind of brilliant strategy worthy of unprecedented promotion.
5) He's also smart enough to listen to others when formulating a plan. (Chekov's suggestion) That what leaders do.
Sure. But this is still not even remotely extraordinary. Isn't Kirk supposed to be off the charts, most promising cadet ever? Where is the proof of that?
6) He tells Sulu to fire on the Narada, if he gets a chance, even if Kirk and Spock are on board. Sacrifice, also part of leading.
Sounds like the exact same thing every commander would say. In fact, it sounds like the kind of thing that would be actively taught at the academy, making it the same thing any cadet would say.
7) He comes up with the plan for Spock to take the Jellyfish to use against Nero.
I've noticed another poster disputes that one. I can't remember specifically, myself, and the copy of the script I'm looking at doesn't really specify who came up with the plan at all - or if there even actually was a plan and not just dumb luck and improvisation.
8) He rescues Pike. (with a little help from Scotty)
This isn't an example of thinking, strategy or leadership at all.
9) He offers Nero a chance to surrender, Nero refuses.
Proving he's not a douche, but not proving he's in any way brilliant or exceptional.
10) he takes a chance and listens to Scotty and saves the ship from the Narada black hole. (see number 5)
Not sure if the final version was exactly the same, but the script for this is:
"
SCOTTY (last desperate thought)
IF WE EJECT THE CORE AND DETONATE, THE BLAST COULD BE STRONG ENOUGH TO PUSH US AWAY BUT I CAN'T PROMISE ANYTHING!
KIRK
DO IT DO IT DO IT!"
So, Scotty got a lucky hunch at the last second and Kirk grasped at the only straw available to save his ship. Not exactly a well considered decision to take a chance on a theory.
He does engage in fisticuffs though, with mixed results. Though on two occasions he works that to his advantage: compromising Spock and getting Ayel's gun. Thinking again.
Compromising Spock was Spock's (Nimoy) plan, not Kirk's. Using fisticuffs to do so seemed simply the most natural way for Kirk to have a confrontation. As for getting the gun, I don't remember that moment off the top of my head, and I can't seem to find it in the script. What part of the movie was that?
So Kirk does think, plan and lead in the film.
After going through all these examples, I still don't see any real thinking or planning, and only a very little leadership. What Kirk shows, above all, in this film is a lot of courage, a strong moral compass and an incredibly accurate gut feeling.
Which makes him a great hero, but doesn't do anything at all to set him apart from the rest of Starfleet as some extraordinary officer whose potential is so wonderful that he must be promoted straight to captain.
As stated, I'm not comparing it to real life. I'm comparing to the known internal logic of the Federation and Starfleet.
You'll have to explain what internal logic was violated and how it was violated.
The internal logic of how the Federation and Starfleet have always worked. Over four shows and ten movies we've seen far more spectacular heroics than Kirk's one day command of the Enterprise in ST09, several times over, and it's never resulted in anything even close to the ridiculous promotion he is rewarded with.
I think the militarization of Section 31 and it exploring near space which had them come in contact with Khan and his people is one such example of how this universe's priorities are quite different than those of the Prime Timeline.
The militarization of section 31 was a response to the attack on Vulcan and Earth. Kirk's promotion happened what, two days after those events took place? Starfleet reassessed it's entire way of doing business that fast? And did so in a way that makes it less militarized, allowing an almost entirely unproven officer to take control of the most important asset in the fleet?
Since I have made a strong stand on this issue, does the decision to only demote Prime Kirk to Captain also make a mockery of Starfleet? I would say no because there is a difference in deciding not to really punish someone in light of services rendered and deciding to give them a command for which the are not yet properly trained. The first is a matter of discretion, the latter is simply irresponsible, not the least because it places other people’s lives at risk.
I would agree with that and moreso, because it's not just a matter of discretion - it's a long standing pattern in Star Trek, presumably related to the basic philosophy of the Federation. The Federation is extraordinarily lenient in punishment in almost every case I can think of.
Dr. Bashir is allowed to remain in Starfleet despite being lying about his genetic enhancements.
Spock isn't punished at all, despite breaking the Talos IV quarantine which supposedly carried the death penalty.
The Maquis are treated with kid gloves for years before Starfleet gets serious about them.
There are no consequences for the Fundamentalist group that sabotaged Risa's weather control system, and not even a reprimand for Worf for helping them.
Starfleet even actively tries to rehabilitate Borg (Hugh and Seven).
I would also expect that, in the case of Kirk's demotion, whatever Hardline elements there may exist in Starfleet command/federation council, would in fact also be inclined to go easy on him, as a form of diplomatic retribution against the Klingons who, let's not forget, launched an unprovoked assault on a bunch of barely armed scientists at the Genesis planet, and killed dozens of Federation citizens, destroying 2 starships. Which nevertheless still did not launch the Federation into open warfare with the Klingons. Even more leniency.
While waiting for STiD to arrive on home video I got myself all three seasons of TOS on Blu-ray. Such an excellent purchase!
