DC to REBOOT???

[Captain Craig]

Shooter wrote the second Superman/Spiderman team-up (which a lot of people at the time considered the best Superman story in years). Further, many people he trained/cultivated at Marvel ended up going over to DC and rebooting the character (Byrne, Stern, Louise Simonson, just to name a few) in the 80s-90s. All of that would tend to show he probably would have handled very well indeed.

I think you might find that those folks became better writers/artists in spite of Shooter.

Byrne under Shooter: classic runs on X-men and FF
Stern under Shooter: classic runs on Spiderman and Avengers
Simonson under Shooter: classic runs on Power Pack and X-factor.

Let's not forget that under Shooter he took a collection of dated characters and built an entire universe around them in the form of VALIANT and added intriguing new characters to that mix.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I question that marketing tactic, given that 99.9% of movie audience doesn't seem to give a crap about the ongoing adventures even when it is Hal Jordan or Bruce Wayne, and the ones who might are probably competent to do their homework.

I want think the only really profound spike was for Watchmen--and that because it was clearly marketed as a directly adapted work, rather than a work which merely shared the same IPs. However, I may be wrong about this. Am I?

You're right. Our store sold the hell out of Watchmen trades starting six months or so before the movie.

 

[the G-man]

I think you might find that those folks became better writers/artists in spite of Shooter.

Byrne under Shooter: classic runs on X-men and FF
Stern under Shooter: classic runs on Spiderman and Avengers
Simonson under Shooter: classic runs on Power Pack and X-factor.

Yeah, those guys sucked under the thumb of Shooter. And, of course, their material after leaving was so much better. Just look at Byrne and Claremont's beloved reunion on JLA a few years ago. That Crucifer made us all forget about Dark Phoenix.

Even if you think Shooter was a jerk (and some do), you can't deny that Marvel was largely at the top of its game during his tenure. I would also point out it was shortly after he left that the company turned into the Franklin Mint, eschewing good writing and art for holo covers, polybags and other gimmicks.

Personally, I think to this day that DC is crazy not to shitcan Didio and put him in charge.

Never said they sucked, just that Shooter was often (to them) an obstacle. This isn't my opinion, but that of Byrne, Stern and others. Byrne has posted quite often his website ( Byrnerobotics.com) what it was like working for Shooter.

Yeah, but Byrne ends up hating just about everyone he works with.

Claremont never really had much success outside of X-Men. Byrne on the other hand had a classic run on Fantastic Four ( often called second only to Lee and Kirby),

Yep. UNDER SHOOTER

relaunched Superman for DC (setting up a status quo that lasted decades)

Yep. Right after working for Shooter (and most likely using the concepts he came up with for Shooter during the aborted Marvel buying DC project).

, had long runs on Wonder Woman and the New Gods, created a popular creator owned series called the Next Men ( which is wrapping up this month, IIRC) and has done some recent work on IDWs Star Trek books that have been well received.

None of which matched his success at Marvel under Shooter.

 

[JD]

It's hard to believe that after almost two months of discussion and speculation and frustration and excitement that the relaunch is 24 or so hours away now. Is anyone planning on getting Flashpoint #5 tomorrow along with Justice League #1 like I am? I've stuck through Flashpoint since it started and despite it sucking I'll finish it if only to read the two page transitional panel to the relaunch.

As everyone here knows pretty well by now, I'm really excited for this and I am eagerly counting down to 10:00 (since I live in the Western part of the country I should be able to get it 2hrs early). I haven't really been following Flashpoint though, so I'll just be getting JLA.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, but Byrne ends up hating just about everyone he works with.

Nope. He's still friendly with former co-workers like Terry Austin, Roger Stern, Howard Mackie, Mike Carlin, Louise Simonson, Ralph Machio...

relaunched Superman for DC (setting up a status quo that lasted decades)

Yep. Right after working for Shooter (and most likely using the concepts he came up with for Shooter during the aborted Marvel buying DC project

I doubt this ever got to the point where Shooter was asking folks for ideas and pitches. The ideas for the Superman reboot are well documented and Shooter doesn't figure in it.

,had long runs on Wonder Woman and the New Gods, created a popular creator owned series called the Next Men ( which is wrapping up this month, IIRC) and has done some recent work on IDWs Star Trek books that have been well received.

None of which matched his success at Marvel under Shooter.

The odd thing about that is X-Men didn't become a "success" until after Byrne left. Yes the run won awards and was a fan fav, but sales wise it wasn't hitting it out of the park.

There will always be one or more projects in every artists career that is the benchmark. I think Byrne has has had several: X-Men, FF and Superman. Shooter was the E-I-C when Byrne was on X-Men and FF but I dont think he had very mcuh imput on what went on in those books. That was the job of the books' editors, writers and artists. All Shooter did was sign off on them. From what I've read many of Shooter's editorial edicts were often confusing, ill thought out and contradictory. Mostly broadstrokes regarding his views on storytelling or art. For X-Men Shooters biggest impact was on the fate of Phoenix. Here's Byrnes take on that.

 

[shivkala]

No. I understand what you mean. I guess my overall point is that what made JSA interesting was the wide spectrum of characters. Old characters, young characters, more iconic characters (like Captain Marvel, The Flash, Green Lantern) and lesster known characters. I just personally think that if they go back to the white-washed WWII boy's club, it will be a big mistake and actually run contrary to what made the 1999 relaunch the only popular JSA series in the first place.

Agreed. While yes, keeping around these legacy characters did present problems, the fact that Jay (and Joan) was there to be a member of the Flash family, Alan was there to interact with the GLs, and, as was pointed out when the title restarted in '05, they are the ones everyone looks to in order to set the example.

 

[the G-man]

There will always be one or more projects in every artists career that is the benchmark. I think Byrne has has had several: X-Men, FF and Superman. Shooter was the E-I-C when Byrne was on X-Men and FF but I dont think he had very mcuh imput on what went on in those books. That was the job of the books' editors, writers and artists. All Shooter did was sign off on them.

Actually, from I remember and understood at the time, the Marvel EIC was much more hands on job.

From what I've read many of Shooter's editorial edicts were often confusing, ill thought out and contradictory. Mostly broadstrokes regarding his views on storytelling or art. For X-Men Shooters biggest impact was on the fate of Phoenix. Here's Byrnes take on that.

So, Shooter forced Byrne and Claremont into giving us one of the classic stories of the comics? THE MONSTER!!

 

[Broccoli]

Pirates! First Hamlet, now DC Comics.

 

[JRS]

I have a bizarre problem with the official subscription site of DC Comics.
I was trying place my subs on the weekend..but for some odd reason I cant choose any comics located from the list on the left( Like Batman, Batgirl or Catwoman). The problem does not seem to go away
Does anyone have ideas what might be wrong?
Is it my browser(Firefox) or something else?

 

[Leroy]

I'm not sure what's up the DC subscriptions site either I've attempted to place my order twice now and nothing happens It just clears the entered information and I get no receipt or anything charged to my credit card. I've contacted customer service twice and they said once that the site was down for maintenance and the second time they haven't received an order form me I'm ready to just send them a check via snail mail like I used to do.

 

[A beaker full of death]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/b...justice-league-and-other-series.html?emc=eta1

I predicted years ago the Superman marriage will never have happened.
Supes in a T-shirt really puts me off, though. This bid by DC is doomed to failure if they start off by being ashamed of their superheroes.

 

[sojourner]

Not sure I get the "being ashamed" bit? The supes in a T-shirt thing is just another year one/origin story, not his permanent look.

 

[Broccoli]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/b...justice-league-and-other-series.html?emc=eta1
I predicted years ago the Superman marriage will never have happened.

Are the older comics being erased from existence?

Supes in a T-shirt really puts me off, though. This bid by DC is doomed to failure if they start off by being ashamed of their superheroes.

No one is ashamed. As revealed by Morrison, that is nothing more than a proto-suit, and the first story arc, an origin, will have Supes adopt his familiar costume.

 

[Professor Zoom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/b...justice-league-and-other-series.html?emc=eta1
I predicted years ago the Superman marriage will never have happened.

Are the older comics being erased from existence?

Supes in a T-shirt really puts me off, though. This bid by DC is doomed to failure if they start off by being ashamed of their superheroes.

No one is ashamed. As revealed by Morrison, that is nothing more than a proto-suit, and the first story arc, an origin, will have Supes adopt his familiar costume.

Well... his new fangled armor version of the familiar costume.

 

[Broccoli]

I predicted years ago the Superman marriage will never have happened.

Are the older comics being erased from existence?

Supes in a T-shirt really puts me off, though. This bid by DC is doomed to failure if they start off by being ashamed of their superheroes.

No one is ashamed. As revealed by Morrison, that is nothing more than a proto-suit, and the first story arc, an origin, will have Supes adopt his familiar costume.

Well... his new fangled armor version of the familiar costume.

I can't tell if that is supposed to be armor or not. In some drawings, it just looks like Jim Lee went crazy with seams and in others, it looks like bulky metal.

Either way and despite the changes, it is still a superhero suit.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Are the older comics being erased from existence?

No one is ashamed. As revealed by Morrison, that is nothing more than a proto-suit, and the first story arc, an origin, will have Supes adopt his familiar costume.

Well... his new fangled armor version of the familiar costume.

I can't tell if that is supposed to be armor or not. In some drawings, it just looks like Jim Lee went crazy with seams and in others, it looks like bulky metal.

Either way and despite the changes, it is still a superhero suit.

At the end of Justice League 1, he calls it armor. Something like "the cape attaches directly to the armor" It's in the pages with the character sketches.

Indeed, it is a superhero suit. An armored suit for a guy who is indestructible. Wait... that was last DCU, maybe not in this one.

 

[scnj]

Isn't it supposed to be Kryptonian armour? Which would make sense, given that they're not indestructible on Krypton.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Maybe he just wants clothing that won't be blown apart when he is in an explosion...

 

[Professor Zoom]

Maybe he just wants clothing that won't be blown apart when he is in an explosion...

I don't remember that really happening in the old costume. Well, all those times he wrestled with Doomsday...

 

[Myasishchev]

Isn't it supposed to be Kryptonian armour? Which would make sense, given that they're not indestructible on Krypton.

Also, in the Silver Age anyway, the suit itself was supposed to be indestructible. I guess it's really not a huge leap to change it from an indestructible fabric to an ever so slightly more plausible indestructible metal.