DC to REBOOT???
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I think you might find that those folks became better writers/artists in spite of Shooter.
Byrne under Shooter: classic runs on X-men and FF
Stern under Shooter: classic runs on Spiderman and Avengers
Simonson under Shooter: classic runs on Power Pack and X-factor.
Yeah, those guys sucked under the thumb of Shooter.
And, of course, their material after leaving was so much better. Just look at Byrne and Claremont's beloved reunion on JLA a few years ago. That Crucifer made us all forget about Dark Phoenix.
Even if you think Shooter was a jerk (and some do), you can't deny that Marvel was largely at the top of its game during his tenure. I would also point out it was shortly after he left that the company turned into the Franklin Mint, eschewing good writing and art for holo covers, polybags and other gimmicks.
Personally, I think to this day that DC is crazy not to shitcan Didio and put him in charge.
I think you might find that those folks became better writers/artists in spite of Shooter.
Byrne under Shooter: classic runs on X-men and FF
Stern under Shooter: classic runs on Spiderman and Avengers
Simonson under Shooter: classic runs on Power Pack and X-factor.
Yeah, those guys sucked under the thumb of Shooter.
Even if you think Shooter was a jerk (and some do), you can't deny that Marvel was largely at the top of its game during his tenure. I would also point out it was shortly after he left that the company turned into the Franklin Mint, eschewing good writing and art for holo covers, polybags and other gimmicks.
Personally, I think to this day that DC is crazy not to shitcan Didio and put him in charge.
Never said they sucked, just that Shooter was often (to them) an obstacle. This isn't my opinion, but that of Byrne, Stern and others. Byrne has posted quite often his website ( Byrnerobotics.com) what it was like working for Shooter.
Claremont was hired to script Byrne's plot for that JLA storyline. Recapturing what they had when doing Uncanny X-Men was never going to happen.
Claremont never really had much success outside of X-Men. Byrne on the other hand had a classic run on Fantastic Four ( often called second only to Lee and Kirby), relaunched Superman for DC (setting up a status quo that lasted decades), had long runs on Wonder Woman and the New Gods, created a popular creator owned series called the Next Men ( which is wrapping up this month, IIRC) and has done some recent work on IDWs Star Trek books that have been well received.
If DC had just continued to reboot Earths every twenty years and omitted all those Earths belonging to other comics properties, we would only have four Earths right now.
The Golden Age
The Silver Age
The Bronze Age
The New Age
So, if they wanted to go with the concept that each earth is twenty years later in the timeline with respect to the age of Super-Heroes we could have...
New Earth in the 21st century.
JSA Earth still set in WWII
Silver Earth set in the fifties and sixties
Bronze Earth from the seventies and eighties
Post Crisis Earth
And then everybody could be happy and content and the new heroes could have a Crisis on Five Earths summer blockbuster event of 2014 that will change everything and the DC multiverse will never be the same again.
The Golden Age
The Silver Age
The Bronze Age
The New Age
So, if they wanted to go with the concept that each earth is twenty years later in the timeline with respect to the age of Super-Heroes we could have...
New Earth in the 21st century.
JSA Earth still set in WWII
Silver Earth set in the fifties and sixties
Bronze Earth from the seventies and eighties
Post Crisis Earth
And then everybody could be happy and content and the new heroes could have a Crisis on Five Earths summer blockbuster event of 2014 that will change everything and the DC multiverse will never be the same again.
Yup. This.I think you might find that those folks became better writers/artists in spite of Shooter.
Byrne under Shooter: classic runs on X-men and FF
Stern under Shooter: classic runs on Spiderman and Avengers
Simonson under Shooter: classic runs on Power Pack and X-factor.
Yeah, those guys sucked under the thumb of Shooter.
Even if you think Shooter was a jerk (and some do), you can't deny that Marvel was largely at the top of its game during his tenure. I would also point out it was shortly after he left that the company turned into the Franklin Mint, eschewing good writing and art for holo covers, polybags and other gimmicks.
Also, Jim Shooter made Valiant. Which rocked--until a point roughly identical to when he left it. Of course, he also made Defiant, which uh... well, I never read that book about the Org of Plasm, and don't know anyone who did. But it sure is fun to say.
And, more worryingly, we can also trace one of the worst moments in comics to Jim Shooter. See, Shooter gave a young man his big break. And while that young man did a fine job drawing Ninjak, no one suspected that he would, one day, grow up to be none other than... Adolf Hitler.
And, more worryingly, we can also trace one of the worst moments in comics to Jim Shooter. See, Shooter gave a young man his big break. And while that young man did a fine job drawing Ninjak, no one suspected that he would, one day, grow up to be none other than... Adolf Hitler.
This preview of Batgirl #1 show that The Killing Joke is still in continuity.
And I disagree. To each their own.
^ Yeah DC confirmed a long time ago that The Killing Joke still is in continuity.
I don't mean to lessen your rant, but in the case of Michael Holt, he is getting his own title out of the "New 52."
That said, yes, Pieter is more developed than Charles, but after all of Robinson's work, I'd hardly say that Courtney Whitmore is more interesting than Ted Knight. Equally, maybe, but not more. And, it is possible that the newer characters are more interesting due to modern writers fleshing them out, which could be done with the older characters. I'm not advocating for the older characters to be used over the new ones, but I did appreciate DC's use of the legacy system to allow room for both.
Finally, yes, the '99 JSA series was all kinds of awesome!
It's hard to believe that after almost two months of discussion and speculation and frustration and excitement that the relaunch is 24 or so hours away now. Is anyone planning on getting Flashpoint #5 tomorrow along with Justice League #1 like I am? I've stuck through Flashpoint since it started and despite it sucking I'll finish it if only to read the two page transitional panel to the relaunch.
Well, you know how I feel about G---f J---s. I never had any intention of buying Justice League.
As for the rest, like I said earlier, no money, no comics. I may pick up an extremely limited selection over the next couple of weeks, i.e. Batwoman, Firestorm, Supergirl (because I'm intrigued yet convinced they'll fuck it up) and maybe Call of Duty: Modern Wafare or whatever that Sgt. Rock book's called. I would get the Legion books, but they look sort of... not awful but garishly bad and ill-conceived, respectively? I dunno. I don't like the artist on the LSH book, and Legion Lost will probably be balls.
If I had the cash, I'd buy that dumb hardcover of all 52 that I can't imagine will sell more than a thousand copies.
^ Yeah I agree with you about that hardcover and I know your feelings about Johns. I also understand your feeling about the Legion books. I share a little of the hesitation over them. Especially the art, I have the feeling the only two Legion books I will be following will be Legion:Secret Origin and the Star Trek crossover.
I don't mean to lessen your rant, but in the case of Michael Holt, he is getting his own title out of the "New 52."
That said, yes, Pieter is more developed than Charles, but after all of Robinson's work, I'd hardly say that Courtney Whitmore is more interesting than Ted Knight. Equally, maybe, but not more. And, it is possible that the newer characters are more interesting due to modern writers fleshing them out, which could be done with the older characters. I'm not advocating for the older characters to be used over the new ones, but I did appreciate DC's use of the legacy system to allow room for both.
Finally, yes, the '99 JSA series was all kinds of awesome!
No. I understand what you mean. I guess my overall point is that what made JSA interesting was the wide spectrum of characters. Old characters, young characters, more iconic characters (like Captain Marvel, The Flash, Green Lantern) and lesster known characters. I just personally think that if they go back to the white-washed WWII boy's club, it will be a big mistake and actually run contrary to what made the 1999 relaunch the only popular JSA series in the first place.
I think that Robinson, Johns, and Goyer intended with their run was to create a title that honoured the past and tradition while creating interesting legacy characters to continue on that tradition in present times. I think this is also one of the reasons fans were bummed when DiDio stated that the JSA was "resting" originally. Moving them onto Earth-2 would seem to defeat the purpose of that book's intention but I guess we'll see where this new book fits in.
^ That's true. Or they find ways of getting the originals back in costume in times for various live action projects 
I question that marketing tactic, given that 99.9% of movie audience doesn't seem to give a crap about the ongoing adventures even when it is Hal Jordan or Bruce Wayne, and the ones who might are probably competent to do their homework.
I want think the only really profound spike was for Watchmen--and that because it was clearly marketed as a directly adapted work, rather than a work which merely shared the same IPs. However, I may be wrong about this. Am I?
I want think the only really profound spike was for Watchmen--and that because it was clearly marketed as a directly adapted work, rather than a work which merely shared the same IPs. However, I may be wrong about this. Am I?
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