The Wizards versus the "Muggles"

[Mike Farley]

Particular events in the books made Hogwarts an important setting, but in a Muggle/Wizard conflict I can't see that it would be that important. What you need to get at is the Ministry of Magic and its equivalents in other countries. And, at least in the UK that's located right in the heart of a major population center. Is the American version of the ministry in Washington DC? At at rate, just bombing it isn't an option until you're desperate.

 

[Yminale]

How the hell would a normal human distinguish a wizard from a regular person? As long as they aren't waving a wand around and wearing wizard robes they look and sound just like anyone else.

Exactly, wizard's need wands and need to openly vocalize their spells. That makes infiltration tough. (Would the invisibility cloak fool an IR camera). I mean you can train dogs to sniff out wands. Plus most wizards are culturally ignorant of muggles.

When you add things up, wizards are not as effective at infiltration as people think.

 

[Kemaiku]

If the other Ministries are the same, they're either right in the heart of the capital or underground beneath the Muggle's own seat of authority/power.

 

[DarthTom]

When you add things up, wizards are not as effective at infiltration as people think.

Younger wizards seem to be familiar with muggles practices as Harry and company are comfortable interacting in the real world. But you're right the others seem either oblivious and/or have a prejudice towards muggles.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Shacklebolt was able to infiltrate the PM's office seamlessly in Book Six.

Basically, wizards are oblivious for comedy and extremely competent for drama.

 

[Silvercrest]

Also, terrorism tactics may also be plausible because there is no evidence to suggest that a wizard unaware that he / she is a target couldn't be killed by a bullet hence sniper fire.

Can you state that less clearly, please?

Another question is "would wizards unite with muggles to fight off a zombie/robot apocalypse?"

And more importantly, which side would the pirate ninjas be on?

Doesn't matter. Batman would still win.

In any kind of fight, Mr Ak47 will triumph against Mr. Potter.

No problem! "Accio AK-47!" and you're disarmed.

Of course, that trick only works one time. Next time, when a wizard shouts "Accio Grenade!", all you have to do is hang onto the pin. The wizard will do the rest for you.

 

[JoeZhang]

Shacklebolt was able to infiltrate the PM's office seamlessly in Book Six.

So was Andy Coulson so that's not saying much!

 

[Yminale]

Shacklebolt was able to infiltrate the PM's office seamlessly in Book Six.

I thought Shacklebolt was assigned to the PM to protect him from Lord Voldermort.

Basically, wizards are oblivious for comedy and extremely competent for drama.

I have to agree that was JK Rowlings intention but her books and the movies are our only source of info on wizards in HP.

 

[Yminale]

Shacklebolt was able to infiltrate the PM's office seamlessly in Book Six.

So was Andy Coulson so that's not saying much!

But Rupert Murdoch is not an evil dark wizard ... Eh? wait a minute

 

[Hound of UIster]

What site, since we've been told that Hogwarts can't be mapped?

See below

Yes, but again, what site? They don't know what it is.

Don't need to, they can just carpet bomb the general area using Bunker Busters

 

[Checkmate]

Just remember, there's a reason the wizards and witches feel they have to hide. They're the ones who are scared and have to hide, not the muggles.

I think that says it all, really.

 

[DarthTom]

Just remember, there's a reason the wizards and witches feel they have to hide. They're the ones who are scared and have to hide, not the muggles.

I think that says it all, really.

It is kind of odd that they hide from the muggles. With their magical abilities they could be worshiped like kings/queens by us mere mortals.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Just remember, there's a reason the wizards and witches feel they have to hide. They're the ones who are scared and have to hide, not the muggles.

I think that says it all, really.

They weren't hiding because they're scared (indeed, the series makes light of witch trials and such), they were hiding because it was more convenient for them than the constant arguments and they wanted to be left alone.

The series repeatedly suggests that the wizarding world could dominate the Muggle world if they wanted to.

See below

Yes, but again, what site? They don't know what it is.

Don't need to, they can just carpet bomb the general area using Bunker Busters

You're missing the point: why are they carpet-bombing the general area? They don't know that anything is there.

I thought Shacklebolt was assigned to the PM to protect him from Lord Voldermort.

He was. But that's still infiltration.

 

[DarthTom]

The series repeatedly suggests that the wizarding world could dominate the Muggle world if they wanted to.

That comes off more as hubris than anything don't you think?

 

[Yminale]

There are multiple factions in the wizarding world when it comes to hiding.

A very small minority like Aurthur Weasley and Hermoine want wizards and muggles to come together openly.

Another group think it's just best to separate since their are fundamental incompatibilities with their lifestyles (Dumbledore)

Another group really either fears muggles or feels muggles don't offer anything they would want (Harry).

Another group goes along because that's the way things are done (the majority)

And then there is Voldemort and his supporters who think it's their natural right to rule everybody.

 

[Yminale]

I thought Shacklebolt was assigned to the PM to protect him from Lord Voldermort.

He was. But that's still infiltration.

Not if the PM knows you're coming. The MoM are in direct communications with the normal government. It was mentioned specifically in Book 3.

It seems the Wizarding community is given some autonomy much like Scotland and Wales or Native American tribes in the US.

 

[Agenda]

I think it really comes down to whether the gloves are off in this battle. If it was the Ministry of Magic involved, they'd be essentially good people and I doubt they would resort to ruthlessly killing non-wizards. They would likely use the tactic of running and hiding, killing only in self defense. But death eaters are another story. It would be interesting to see just what Voldemort and his followers could do to muggles if they really wanted to conquer or destroy them.

 

[CaptainCanada]

That comes off more as hubris than anything don't you think?

No. It's a source of jeopardy; if the good guys don't win, Voldemort will eventually dominate everything.

Not if the PM knows you're coming.

Which he didn't. He was shocked to learn that Shacklebolt was a wizard.

It seems the Wizarding community is given some autonomy much like Scotland and Wales or Native American tribes in the US.

No, that's not remotely accurate. The Minister for Magic informs the current PM that they exist, and occasionally informs him about other goings-on, but that's the extent of their involvement; the first chapter of Book Six specifies that the UK Prime Minister had met Cornelius Fudge about four times in the course of his tenure, all of which were cursory.

 

[SG-17]

Forget muggles, Wizards versus superhumans is where it is at. Of course some would be powerless, like Superman, but you have ones like Captain Marvel, the Flash, and Batman. Hell give Batman enough planing time and he could take down the entire wizarding world by himself.

 

[Sci]

I thought Shacklebolt was assigned to the PM to protect him from Lord Voldermort.

He was. But that's still infiltration.

Not if the PM knows you're coming. The MoM are in direct communications with the normal government. It was mentioned specifically in Book 3.

It seems the Wizarding community is given some autonomy much like Scotland and Wales or Native American tribes in the US.

Uh, no, the Wizarding community does whatever it wants and runs roughshed over the legitimate government of the United Kingdom. Hell, they were importing dangerous foreign dragons onto British soil without even getting HM Government's permission -- they just gave the Prime Minister a cursory notice that it was happening. It's more like they think they're above Muggle law, period.

One of my big disappointments in the Harry Potter series was that it did not end with Harry fundamentally reversing the entire paradigm of Wizarding politics by revealing the existence of Wizards and magic to the Muggle world. That self-segregation, that arrogance and belief in their own superiority over Muggles, was ultimately the source of a lot of the ideologies that led to such extreme political instability in the Wizarding world (the rise of the Death Eaters and Grendelwald before them, etc.). Had the series ended with a revolutionary upending of the established paradigm, I would have loved it. It would have addressed the fundamental bigotries behind all other bigotries in the series.