Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were?
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Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
It's sort of like how some new races that may have been initially encountered in the 24th-Century may not come into prominence with the Federation until the 26th-Century...
Rather, it's a case of personal expectations.
Despite the many declarations of continuity violations, they were actually few and far between. The show generally worked around whatever wriggle room was available within continuity. If those races had starfaring capability in the 22nd-Century, then it would make sense that some initial meetings (especially if unofficial) may have taken place with Humans in that era, IMO.
It's sort of like how some new races that may have been initially encountered in the 24th-Century may not come into prominence with the Federation until the 26th-Century...
Apparently, it was. It would be 200 years later before reports would surface again of a mysterious biomechanical life-form...
As the name of the species was never learned, they were likely filed away as unidentified like the unnamed parasitic life-forms encountered in the TNG episode "Conspiracy." It may be centuries before that race is encountered again...
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Without bothering to check every page, I'm certain somebody must have mentioned that Cardassians were name checked during "Observer Effect". They were a race the Organians experimented on prior to humans and Klingons.
I absolutely agree with the sentiment that ENT was a prequel to the whole Star Trek franchise and just about any discrepancy could have been explained away or "corrected" given the fullness of a run as long as TNG/DS9/VOY.
For instance Romulans and Sulibans seen dabbling with stealth technology? Different races having their own Temporal Agent like a Future Guy or Guardian type, covertly slipping them information how to build it. But with the 22nd Century materials eventually proving to be not up to the job, the power cost being enormous or being overcome by Starfleet. It still plants the incentive to improve on it over the next couple centuries.
ENT would have worked best just honouring the road to TOS but even then I really like the TNG and DS9 references like Arik Soong and Section 31. The Federation was fair game, being a part of every show. It's a bit difficult to do VOY and I'm frankly glad they didn't try. Although that 'holographic Doctor' joke Trip makes in the first season episode, "Oasis" had already qualified.
Without bothering to check every page, I'm certain somebody must have mentioned that Cardassians were name checked during "Observer Effect". They were a race the Organians experimented on prior to humans and Klingons.
I absolutely agree with the sentiment that ENT was a prequel to the whole Star Trek franchise and just about any discrepancy could have been explained away or "corrected" given the fullness of a run as long as TNG/DS9/VOY.
For instance Romulans and Sulibans seen dabbling with stealth technology? Different races having their own Temporal Agent like a Future Guy or Guardian type, covertly slipping them information how to build it. But with the 22nd Century materials eventually proving to be not up to the job, the power cost being enormous or being overcome by Starfleet. It still plants the incentive to improve on it over the next couple centuries.
ENT would have worked best just honouring the road to TOS but even then I really like the TNG and DS9 references like Arik Soong and Section 31. The Federation was fair game, being a part of every show. It's a bit difficult to do VOY and I'm frankly glad they didn't try. Although that 'holographic Doctor' joke Trip makes in the first season episode, "Oasis" had already qualified.
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Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
"Vulcan Love Slave" could be a quite a latinum spinner and then there's always the hologram rights to consider.
Maybe the Ferengi Jeffrey Combs is playing, decides he's crap at being a pirate and becomes the J K Rowling of the 22nd Century.
"Vulcan Love Slave" could be a quite a latinum spinner and then there's always the hologram rights to consider.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
But yeah, aside from that... "Acquistion" is among my bottom 5 ENT episodes.
Others scraping below that are -
"These are the Voyages..." (seriously... WTF kind of ending was that?) "Bounty" (Pure T'Pol-sploitation, with Archer-Tellarite-Klingon plot over-shadowed)
"A Night in Sickbay" (watch this and you may never return to ENT ever again)
"Precious Cargo" (cringeworthy play-acting all round)
Conversely, "Regeneration" sounds like a franchise running low on ideas, but then suddenly turns into a return-to-form Borg appearance. They work as a force of nature everytime, when there's no leader you can reason with. The music is striking and memorable (as far as ENT went). The Thing homagé works perfectly with no main cast during the first act. Archer's dilemma about blowing two guys they've only just rescued out the airlock, is great. Especially if you strip back what you know about the Borg and see them simply as "victims in need of medical help".
But yeah, aside from that... "Acquistion" is among my bottom 5 ENT episodes.
Others scraping below that are -
"These are the Voyages..." (seriously... WTF kind of ending was that?) "Bounty" (Pure T'Pol-sploitation, with Archer-Tellarite-Klingon plot over-shadowed)
"A Night in Sickbay" (watch this and you may never return to ENT ever again)
"Precious Cargo" (cringeworthy play-acting all round)
Conversely, "Regeneration" sounds like a franchise running low on ideas, but then suddenly turns into a return-to-form Borg appearance. They work as a force of nature everytime, when there's no leader you can reason with. The music is striking and memorable (as far as ENT went). The Thing homagé works perfectly with no main cast during the first act. Archer's dilemma about blowing two guys they've only just rescued out the airlock, is great. Especially if you strip back what you know about the Borg and see them simply as "victims in need of medical help".
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Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Actually, it's more likely based on DS9's Sakonna.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sakonna
What about T'Pol's uniform being a shout out to 7of9?
Actually, it's more likely based on DS9's Sakonna.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sakonna
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
I don't recall the episode but there was a passing reference to Cardassians.
Feel better?
I don't recall the episode but there was a passing reference to Cardassians.
Feel better?
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
^^The Cardassian referance was in season 4's Observer Effect.
Actually, a computer graphic in Descent does state that the opposite end of that subspace vortex thing that the Enterprise and Lore's Borg ship went through was in the Delta Quadrant. It's possible this is where the Borg coming from the Delta Quadrant idea originated.
^^The Cardassian referance was in season 4's Observer Effect.
Actually, a computer graphic in Descent does state that the opposite end of that subspace vortex thing that the Enterprise and Lore's Borg ship went through was in the Delta Quadrant. It's possible this is where the Borg coming from the Delta Quadrant idea originated.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Huh..... I never noticed that. To the DVD collection....
Huh..... I never noticed that. To the DVD collection....
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
By 'isolated incident' I mean that Enterprise had a pattern of recycling species from chronologically shows.
You can slap together justifications until the cows come home and it won't change the fact that its a stupid sign of creative bankruptcy.
When everyone's maximum speed is Warp 4 space is simply that much larger because you can't reach as far. And instead we see the exact same reach. That simply doesn't make sense.
Don't get me wrong, it was a well-done episode. But the problem is that its part of a pattern of shamelessly using later species. If it was a unique thing seeing future species it would be amazing. But instead it simply has a wearying and stale factor that ultimately hurt the series.
By 'isolated incident' I mean that Enterprise had a pattern of recycling species from chronologically shows.
You can slap together justifications until the cows come home and it won't change the fact that its a stupid sign of creative bankruptcy.
When everyone's maximum speed is Warp 4 space is simply that much larger because you can't reach as far. And instead we see the exact same reach. That simply doesn't make sense.
Don't get me wrong, it was a well-done episode. But the problem is that its part of a pattern of shamelessly using later species. If it was a unique thing seeing future species it would be amazing. But instead it simply has a wearying and stale factor that ultimately hurt the series.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
The real fact, however, is that more often than not, ENT dealt with races that were either new, well known by the 23rd-Century, or did not have a specified time of when first contact with them were made. Seems like they the only thing ENT did was violate fanon more often than actual continuity.
Not much of a pattern, actually. About three "24th-Century" species appeared in ENT (Ferengi, Borg, and Risans). More than three dozen other races were either unique to the 22nd-Century or keeping within the timeframe of races known by the time of TOS (like the Andorians and the Rigelians).
In your apparently biased opinion.
The real fact, however, is that more often than not, ENT dealt with races that were either new, well known by the 23rd-Century, or did not have a specified time of when first contact with them were made. Seems like they the only thing ENT did was violate fanon more often than actual continuity.
We don't know exactly how far a ship can go at Warp 4 because the so-called "warp scales" aren't canon. We also don't know how close any of these worlds are to Earth in the Star Trek Universe. If they're all located within a 100-150 light-year radius from Sol, it's very feasible that NX-01 could easily contact these worlds and their ships passing through that area. If anything, onscreen evidence from the various Trek shows have demonstrated that warp speed is many times faster than any non-canon warp scale or that there are many worlds located within what is considered "local space" by the time of the Federation.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
That was stupid enough when they did it with the Ferengi and Borg.
A Star Trek spin-off was a sure thing when Enterprise premiered, and it managed to get itself cancelled. That's how bad it was. The writer's opinion of DS9's quality isn't worth much.
That was stupid enough when they did it with the Ferengi and Borg.
A Star Trek spin-off was a sure thing when Enterprise premiered, and it managed to get itself cancelled. That's how bad it was. The writer's opinion of DS9's quality isn't worth much.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
1. That number should have been 'zero.' Why ruin a good thing by overreaching? Simply be content with a smaller area to work in.
2. As opposed to your equally biased opinion? It only shows the writers are grasping at straws or looking to cut a few corners when they turn to something unbecoming to the period.
3. Warp IIRC is an exponential increase in speed by factor. While random encounters might be acceptable for some conditions, looking at a Trek star chart will show you there are some serious obstacles to be had. Combine that with the sheer distance and you'll realize the Ferengi suddenly showing up is quite unconvincing.
My summation here since I'm running out of patience:
While any one of these incidents by itself would be a nice nod, the consistent pattern of them is detrimental to the series as a whole. Instead of using the established timeline so strongly they should have embraced the early date and more strongly pursued their own creativity. The phenomenon of using previous popular species is an example of bootstrapping. And bootstrapping is unbecoming for creative purposes.
Now have a lovely day.
1. That number should have been 'zero.' Why ruin a good thing by overreaching? Simply be content with a smaller area to work in.
2. As opposed to your equally biased opinion? It only shows the writers are grasping at straws or looking to cut a few corners when they turn to something unbecoming to the period.
3. Warp IIRC is an exponential increase in speed by factor. While random encounters might be acceptable for some conditions, looking at a Trek star chart will show you there are some serious obstacles to be had. Combine that with the sheer distance and you'll realize the Ferengi suddenly showing up is quite unconvincing.
My summation here since I'm running out of patience:
While any one of these incidents by itself would be a nice nod, the consistent pattern of them is detrimental to the series as a whole. Instead of using the established timeline so strongly they should have embraced the early date and more strongly pursued their own creativity. The phenomenon of using previous popular species is an example of bootstrapping. And bootstrapping is unbecoming for creative purposes.
Now have a lovely day.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Not necessarily. The races revisited were popular and the viewership seemed to like the familiarity. You could rewrite those scripts with brand new aliens and people would say, "Why didn't you use the Ferengi/Borg/Organians/Andorians/Gorn/Tholians instead?"
Not necessarily. The races revisited were popular and the viewership seemed to like the familiarity. You could rewrite those scripts with brand new aliens and people would say, "Why didn't you use the Ferengi/Borg/Organians/Andorians/Gorn/Tholians instead?"
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Kinda begs the question of why the federation did not try to use or recreate these trans-warp conduits after Decent. although we do see a better borg version of it in Endgame.
Kinda begs the question of why the federation did not try to use or recreate these trans-warp conduits after Decent. although we do see a better borg version of it in Endgame.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
ENT showed a lot of early versions of things that would be familiar in later eras. In that capacity, it succeeded as a general prequel to Trek. Why should ENT only have dealt with never-before-seen aliens?
Would a series in which the ship never encountered any aliens have been to your liking?
Nonsense. I'm stating just the facts. I also speak as someone who really isn't a fan of ENT--one of those "bashers"--but when I looked at the series objectively, I realized that a lot of the so-called things they got "wrong" were actually personal preconceptions than actual facts. From an objective point of view, ENT's continuity violations were actually few and far between.
Never stopped any series since TOS. Why should ENT have avoided showing how some things in Trek began?
Ah, but by how much though?
Like what--fan preconceptions? Once again, we don't know how fast warp speeds are or how far it is between Earth and Ferenginar.
See above post. And if the Ferengi had warp drive in the 22nd-Century and were also in the Alpha Quadrant, why couldn't there be an unofficial contact between them and Humans?
My summation since it's to the point:
ENT showed a lot of early versions of things that would be familiar in later eras. In that capacity, it succeeded as a general prequel to Trek. Why should ENT only have dealt with never-before-seen aliens?
U2.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Space might be littered with Borg conduits of various sorts in ENT, TOS, TNG and VOY alike. To make any use of a "Descent" type conduit, though, you need to know exactly where to find one, and then how to key in the code that opens the entry point. To create a "Descent" type conduit, you probably need a transwarp coil or some other piece of Borg machinery our TNG heroes never encountered and perhaps not even Janeway ever confiscated. And possibly a conduit degrades and disappears if it is not revisited and revigorated, or then permanently connected to one of those hub things. It would be quite a demanding job for the Federation to get a grip of the technology, let alone duplicate it.
...Unless one factors in the ending of "Descent", where a bunch of Borg and their mad leader fell to Starfleet hands and may have acted as viable sources of intel. But when Picard and Hugh say goodbye to each other, the impression is that the rebel Borg won't cooperate and won't become Federation vassals, and that Starfleet will find nothing if it returns to the rebel Borg hideout a few weeks later.
Timo Saloniemi
Space might be littered with Borg conduits of various sorts in ENT, TOS, TNG and VOY alike. To make any use of a "Descent" type conduit, though, you need to know exactly where to find one, and then how to key in the code that opens the entry point. To create a "Descent" type conduit, you probably need a transwarp coil or some other piece of Borg machinery our TNG heroes never encountered and perhaps not even Janeway ever confiscated. And possibly a conduit degrades and disappears if it is not revisited and revigorated, or then permanently connected to one of those hub things. It would be quite a demanding job for the Federation to get a grip of the technology, let alone duplicate it.
...Unless one factors in the ending of "Descent", where a bunch of Borg and their mad leader fell to Starfleet hands and may have acted as viable sources of intel. But when Picard and Hugh say goodbye to each other, the impression is that the rebel Borg won't cooperate and won't become Federation vassals, and that Starfleet will find nothing if it returns to the rebel Borg hideout a few weeks later.
Timo Saloniemi
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