It seemed to be good enough for Fred and Cordelia later on though and some rooms looked entirely decent.
Angel- Why no Love!
- Thread starter Snick27
- Start date
Even so, I don't sleep at my office, why should anyone else ?
..because it's rent free?
Besides, Fred used to live in a cave & Gunn lived in an abandon wearhouse.
That hotel was a better living place than where they had been.
Exactly, Cordy and Wesley explicitly chose to continue living at their apartments, it was theirs and no one elses' good enough reason for me. Fred had no other place to go, really her family lived in Texas and any home she had in L.A. was long since gone having been missing for several years. I believe Gunn was homless to begin with (more or less) and lived with Fred anyway when the two decided to pair up. Freds reasoning was also due in part for trying to be where she felt safe, where Angel lived is where she felt safe.
I must admit, I can see the point, even with the issues and tension aside and wanting a 'break', that large hotel? I'd be tempted to take one of the rooms for myself rather then continue to struggle to pay my bills at an apartment (and Cordy often whined about not making enough, money was hard to come by).
While i kinda like buffy, it finally becoming a decent show in its 3rd season, angel had me hooked from the start, with its mix of dark stories and humor, i found it to be a great show, and the final season ended up being so much better than buffy's.
Which doesn't really make sense to me. I thought that part of the deal of not having a soul was that you weren't able to feel bad about stuff.
Actually, when you think about it, there's very little that Connor did in Season 4 that couldn't be tweaked so that someone else did it instead. Gunn, Fred, Lorne, & Wesley could easily be left to believe that the Beast fathered Cordelia's child and that Angel was the one who killed Jasmine. The more difficult parts of Connor's timeline to change would be in Season 3, explaining why Wesley ended up getting exiled by the group if Connor was never there for him to kidnap in the first place.
IIRC, when Lilah showed up in "Calvary," she said that the Beast had killed everyone from W&H, even those that were home sick or on vacation. I think we're supposed to believe that many of the Season 5 employees were transferred from other branches. In particular, I seem to recall that that jealous secretary from "Harm's Way" had been working with W&H for quite a while before Harmony joined the company.
While I'll agree that there is, in general, a double standard regarding female on male rape, I don't recall Spike at all being an unwilling participant in that incident. Granted, it's been a while since I've seen the episode.
I'll grant you Cordelia & Wesley. However, I thought that, by Season 3 at least, Gunn was living at the hotel.
One of the things I think helped Angel was the whole ordeal with Wolfram & Hart was present throughout the series. Even if the season (or episode) didn't particularly represent them as the big bad, they were somehow connected to the bad guy, through one way or another. Overall, it gave a since of connection, constancy and best of all, an arc that lasted throughout the series.
That and lessons learned from Buffy probably helped in Angel as well, not to mention the fact that some of the characters in the series were already well established.
That and lessons learned from Buffy probably helped in Angel as well, not to mention the fact that some of the characters in the series were already well established.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
In fact, it never happened. We find Buffy walking through the park a scene later all annoyed that Spike didn't give her what she wanted, proving that Spike stuck to his guns after all about her leaving without any sex, and Buffy obliged by his wishes.
This of course, totally different from Spike who whenever Buffy said no, he happily continued until she gave in, because he knew she didn't have the mental strength to enforce the "no".
Except that we find Buffy later on walking and sulking that she didn't get any, meaning that Spike stuck to his guns and she surrendered to his wishes.
Except that Faith deliberately asked him whether he wanted to have sex first and he said yes. Not to mention that even if she hadn't asked him, he never said no or any way shape or form attempted to do so. Making it not an assault at all.
With the Xander/Faith thing, I suppose it depends upon which instance you're talking about. Their "romantic interlude" in "The Zeppo" was consensual, even if Faith was the more aggressive of the two. As for "Consequences," that wasn't so much about sex as it was Faith just trying to kill him.
Watch the last episode and then disagree with me. Go on, get your DVDs out and do it. See you in 45 minutes.
Right, because feminism and female empowerment are such horrible, bad, threatening things. After all, what opportunities for advancement have men had in this century?
There's nothing wrong with female power, and it's not a threat to male power. Both sexes can be powerful.
Right, because feminism and female empowerment are such horrible, bad, threatening things. After all, what opportunities for advancement have men had in this century?
There's nothing wrong with female power, and it's not a threat to male power. Both sexes can be powerful.
Of course they bloody can!
All I'm saying is that the show would have been a lot more enjoyable if they hadn't hit the viewer over the head with that fact every few minutes.
The writing in the final season was lazy. Got a bunch of women together ? Let's give them a big, scary, evil misogynist man to fight!
Then, when it comes down to it, the secret to defeating evil itself is to "unlock the hidden power in women all over the world" ? That one was a big frakking troll hammer to the skull.
She "surrendered" by not having sex with him ? Damn, she should start going to BDSM munches and get herself collared quick!
Except that Faith deliberately asked him whether he wanted to have sex first and he said yes. Not to mention that even if she hadn't asked him, he never said no or any way shape or form attempted to do so. Making it not an assault at all.[/QUOTE]
I think you're confusing "The Zeppo" with "Consequences". She pinned him to the bed, sexually assaulted him and tried to strangle him. Only Angel showing up saved him. Barely any mention of this is made again.
When she then pretends to be Buffy and sleeps with Riley, the focus is on Buffy being betrayed by her boyfriend and not on Riley being tricked in to sex that he wouldn't have consented to.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
She "surrendered" by not having sex with him ? Damn, she should start going to BDSM munches and get herself collared quick!
So she should have raped him?She simply tried to kill him, and it wasn't treated as no big deal, it's one of her major fall to the dark side events. And why it's later not mentioned is because the writers all ignored Xander. Not some inherent male/female problem.
Way to go around in circles there. Dizzy yet ? Buffy didn't "surrender" by not having sex with him. Do you "surrender" to all the women you want to have sex with who don't let you ?
No, the writers ignoring the male lead wasn't a male/female problem at all.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Way to go around in circles there. Dizzy yet ? Buffy didn't "surrender" by not having sex with him. Do you "surrender" to all the women you want to have sex with who don't let you ?
Accepting their wishes and moving on, is a form of surrender, it's surrendering to their wishes and moving on. Not surrendering, is not accepting their wishes and force yourself on them.
Xander isn't the male lead, that's Angel. Xander is just the supporting character, at best, if you're lucky. I know, it's wrong, and Xander should be the male lead, but them's the breaks.
How does sucking his dick after he told her to leave equate to "Surrendering to his wishes"? She may not have forced him to have full penetrative sex but she certainly sexually assaulted him.
Way to go around in circles there. Dizzy yet ? Buffy didn't "surrender" by not having sex with him. Do you "surrender" to all the women you want to have sex with who don't let you ?
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So you're just confusing the words "surrender" and "accept" then ?
She initiated, he said no, she continued to push until he gave in. They did have sex, he just didn't want as much as she did and she complained when they stopped.
The nature of the episode means we don't know exactly what Buffy was doing, but it looks very much like she at least put her hand down his trousers before he knew who it was. He visibly tried to stop whatever was going on, but she carried on. That is not exactly taking "no means no" in to account.
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Xander was in virtually every episode. Angel was only a regular for two seasons. In fact, in the second half of one of those seasons he was barely around at all in many episodes.
Regardless of who was the victim, acts of violence against the male characters were not given the same sympathetic treatment as the female ones - the most obvious example being Buffy's reaction when she found out Riley had slept with Faith-as-Buffy. Far too much emphasis was placed on Buffy's point of view and nothing at all on Riley being effectively raped by Faith.
Riley's ability to give his informed consent was removed. This is rape whether people like it or not.
How does sucking his dick after he told her to leave equate to "Surrendering to his wishes"? She may not have forced him to have full penetrative sex but she certainly sexually assaulted him.
Way to go around in circles there. Dizzy yet ? Buffy didn't "surrender" by not having sex with him. Do you "surrender" to all the women you want to have sex with who don't let you ?
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What ? I'm the one saying SHE DID ASSAULT HIM!!!
I was agreeing with you.
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