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That BIG canon violation (spoilers)

I only had time to skim through this thread, so forgive me if this has already been said, but I thought it had already been established that Kirk's father and mother die on the Kelvin together? I don't know how to use spoiler tags. :(

Not exactly. The reports I've read said Kirk is born in the same day his father dies.
Having said that, maybe his mother doesn't survive the birth, following Padme Amidala's path? ;)
Or maybe James and his brother are raised by Uncle Frank and his new wife, his sister-in-law?
Who knows?
 
If George Kirk was killed on the Kelvin by Romulans that come from the future, then there can be no canon violations: George Kirk wasn't supposed to die at that point. New timeline from the point of the Romulan incursion. Everything that happens to James Kirk from his birth onward is different than what would have happened to him in "canon". So, no canon violations possible. Canon is rebooted by the Romulan incursion.

Dan
 
If George Kirk was killed on the Kelvin by Romulans that come from the future, then there can be no canon violations: George Kirk wasn't supposed to die at that point. New timeline from the point of the Romulan incursion. Everything that happens to James Kirk from his birth onward is different than what would have happened to him in "canon". So, no canon violations possible. Canon is rebooted by the Romulan incursion.

Dan
Entirely reasonable.
 
^ I quite agree. That is a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Not to be pedantic, but it's a continuity violation, not a canon violation ;) You can't 'violate' a canon.

Well, ok, that was pedantic. But :p
 
If George Kirk was killed on the Kelvin by Romulans that come from the future, then there can be no canon violations: George Kirk wasn't supposed to die at that point. New timeline from the point of the Romulan incursion. Everything that happens to James Kirk from his birth onward is different than what would have happened to him in "canon". So, no canon violations possible. Canon is rebooted by the Romulan incursion.

Dan

Which I can dig and tolerate. A'la how Earth and Federation history were briefly altered for the worse when the Borg managed to prevent Zefram Cochrane from making his first warp flight...before Picard and the 1701-E were able to repair history and restore the timeline.
 
I love how this thread just goes back and forth between the topics of Kirk's childhood and Lucy's big tits :lol:
 
We could split the difference and talk about Shatner's ginormous man-boobs... but frankly, I'd just as soon not. :D
 
If George Kirk was killed on the Kelvin by Romulans that come from the future, then there can be no canon violations: George Kirk wasn't supposed to die at that point. New timeline from the point of the Romulan incursion. Everything that happens to James Kirk from his birth onward is different than what would have happened to him in "canon". So, no canon violations possible. Canon is rebooted by the Romulan incursion.

Dan

Someone gets it.

Unless the elderly Spock's efforts in the film CORRECT changes that Nero and the Romulans have made by going back in time to begin with.

I think that's the main question of the film.
 
Unless the elderly Spock's efforts in the film CORRECT changes that Nero and the Romulans have made by going back in time to begin with.

I don't think he puts it back exactly the way it was. In the end, we'll be stuck with a new continuity where "Balance of Terror" couldn't possibly happen the way it did originally.
 
I couldn't drive one of those even after reading the operator's manual. Perhaps after a day or two of practice, perhaps not. And I always drive a manual stick shift. Hell, many cars back then used to have two clutches, gas pedals and shift sticks! The best and user-friendliest models resembled modern manual stick vehicles in configuration, but since they had unsynchronized gearboxes, it was notoriously difficult to find first, and even more difficult to find second.

I had no idea 1920's cars were so difficult to drive...I guess you learn something new everyday. He should still be shot for trashing a 'Vette.
 
Unless the elderly Spock's efforts in the film CORRECT changes that Nero and the Romulans have made by going back in time to begin with.

I don't think he puts it back exactly the way it was. In the end, we'll be stuck with a new continuity where "Balance of Terror" couldn't possibly happen the way it did originally.

SHEEEESH. I hope not.:rolleyes:

"Sexing up" the franchise is going to end up killing it...just to pander to today's stupider, short-attention-span audience.
 
SHEEEESH. I hope not.:rolleyes:

"Sexing up" the franchise is going to end up killing it...just to pander to today's stupider, short-attention-span audience.

Like it or not, that audience is the one who will be paying Paramount's bills. Unfortunately, that leaves us out of the loop. This is why we got those stupid-looking Transformers in the Transformers movie.
 
SHEEEESH. I hope not.:rolleyes:

"Sexing up" the franchise is going to end up killing it...just to pander to today's stupider, short-attention-span audience.

Like it or not, that audience is the one who will be paying Paramount's bills. Unfortunately, that leaves us out of the loop. This is why we got those stupid-looking Transformers in the Transformers movie.

At least Optimus Prime looked enough like the old toys and cartoon that I could get into his character. Megatron? UGH.
 
At least Optimus Prime looked enough like the old toys and cartoon that I could get into his character. Megatron? UGH.

Yeah, a Bionicle rip-off robot with teeth and no beast mode to justify it.:guffaw:

Megatron is supposed to look like a handgun. End. Of. Story. The movie ripoff looked like someone put a Bionicle and animei into a cuisinart and hit the highest setting...but only after peeing on the whole thing.
 
At least Optimus Prime looked enough like the old toys and cartoon that I could get into his character. Megatron? UGH.

Yeah, a Bionicle rip-off robot with teeth and no beast mode to justify it.:guffaw:

Megatron is supposed to look like a handgun. End. Of. Story. The movie ripoff looked like someone put a Bionicle and animei into a cuisinart and hit the highest setting...but only after peeing on the whole thing.
So what you're talking about is a cannon violation, isn't it?
 
Unless the elderly Spock's efforts in the film CORRECT changes that Nero and the Romulans have made by going back in time to begin with.

I don't think he puts it back exactly the way it was. In the end, we'll be stuck with a new continuity where "Balance of Terror" couldn't possibly happen the way it did originally.

It depends on how many of the crew see a Romulan in the flesh. Spock (either version) could mind meld with them and make them forget.
 
I don't think he puts it back exactly the way it was. In the end, we'll be stuck with a new continuity where "Balance of Terror" couldn't possibly happen the way it did originally.

It depends on how many of the crew see a Romulan in the flesh. Spock (either version) could mind meld with them and make them forget.

Ugh.:angryrazz: Not another Superman II stunt.
 
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SHEEEESH. I hope not.:rolleyes:

"Sexing up" the franchise is going to end up killing it...just to pander to today's stupider, short-attention-span audience.

Like it or not, that audience is the one who will be paying Paramount's bills. Unfortunately, that leaves us out of the loop. This is why we got those stupid-looking Transformers in the Transformers movie.
Okay--you've just provided an excellent example of the movie-goer vs fan situation. I did not see Transformers in the cinema, but I did rent it and (later) bought it. The only thing I knew about Transformers (almost all from a former student who was a BIG fan) was a vague notion there was some war across space between two robot factions that made its way to Earth and the robots (as per their name) "transformed"--into vehicles (I remember the commercials for the cartoon and the toys back in the day). I had NO idea what a proper "Optimus Prime" or any of the other robots were supposed to be like. To me, if they could "transform" from vehicles to robots, that's all that was necessary. I found it entertaining (and visually spectacular so that I purchased a hi-def copy) in an escapist, summer popcorn movie kind of way. So did (over the gnashing of many hardcore fans' teeth, apparently) a lot of other people judging by the box office returns.

This is EXACTLY what Paramount hopes to do with the new Trek movie. Transformers is the model to which they aspire. Anyone who thought otherwise was engaging in, at best, wishful thinking.

HOW the new production team chose to proceed (while attempting to mimic the Transformers phenomenon, in kind if not in scale as far as expectations go) is immaterial to the goal. The goal is to generate buzz, excitement and SALES.

If the makers of Transformers had tried to primarily "please the existing fans", it would have been doomed to financial failure. Same goes for Trek. Obviously, in each case, the filmmakers hope their efforts are appreciated by "existing fans" (and, to a significant degree, they are) but they could not make "existing fans" the primary target audience if their goal was to maximize ticket sales.

While I'm an "existing fan" of Trek (albeit one who feels little trepidation with regards to the new movie), I am not an "existing fan" of Transformers. As such, I was part of the target audience for Transformers and people who have a similar "lack of attachment" to Trek are the target audience. In each case, the hard core "purists" were always bound to be disappointed. Such is the way of the world.
 
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