That BIG canon violation (spoilers)

[Ovation]

^Still sucks.

Which one? Or both? To whom?

I'm sure there are those who were disappointed with Transformers. Same will happen with the new Trek movie. But 'dems da breaks. Making feature films is (with exceedingly rare exceptions) predicated on making money. Trying to appeal primarily to "hardcore purists" of ANY franchise is NOT a money-making proposition (mostly because it is nearly impossible to satisfy such "purists" as they can't agree amongst themselves what is acceptable--no financially responsible entity would be worthy of the name if it chose to try to please such a small, implacable group at the expense of a wider success).

 

[Luminus]

Which one? Or both? To whom?

I'm sure there are those who were disappointed with Transformers. Same will happen with the new Trek movie. But 'dems da breaks. Making feature films is (with exceedingly rare exceptions) predicated on making money. Trying to appeal primarily to "hardcore purists" of ANY franchise is NOT a money-making proposition (mostly because it is nearly impossible to satisfy such "purists" as they can't agree amongst themselves what is acceptable--no financially responsible entity would be worthy of the name if it chose to try to please such a small, implacable group at the expense of a wider success).

The unnecessary changes suck. Making Transformers look like Bionicles is equivalent to making Hobits tall. But we're being diverted, here. There's no change, so far, about this new Trek that disgusts me.

 

[Ovation]

Which one? Or both? To whom?

I'm sure there are those who were disappointed with Transformers. Same will happen with the new Trek movie. But 'dems da breaks. Making feature films is (with exceedingly rare exceptions) predicated on making money. Trying to appeal primarily to "hardcore purists" of ANY franchise is NOT a money-making proposition (mostly because it is nearly impossible to satisfy such "purists" as they can't agree amongst themselves what is acceptable--no financially responsible entity would be worthy of the name if it chose to try to please such a small, implacable group at the expense of a wider success).

The unnecessary changes suck. Making Transformers look like Bionicles is equivalent to making Hobits tall. But we're being diverted, here. There's no change, so far, about this new Trek that disgusts me.

My point is that there will always be some who find "unnecessary changes" in whatever franchise is being revived. It is impossible to NOT piss off some portion of the existing fanbase so it is best to just not worry about it (from the filmmakers' perspective) and focus on doing a good job with the film while hoping a lot of people will like it. It's all entertainment, in the end.

 

[cubbie]

So my theory is that, although young Kirk wasn't expected to be born so soon (otherwise his mother wouldn't be in active duty anymore!), the shock of watching her husband die (maybe she sees the Kelvin exploding as the shuttle she's in escapes the carnage) makes Winona have a premature birth!
And so the big canon violation happens...

If Winona gives birth to both Spock and Kirk, then that is a huge canon violation.

 

[Luminus]

Does anyone know at what point Winona steals the Enterprise?

.....


What's that you say? A cheap shot?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I don't think he puts it back exactly the way it was. In the end, we'll be stuck with a new continuity where "Balance of Terror" couldn't possibly happen the way it did originally.

It depends on how many of the crew see a Romulan in the flesh. Spock (either version) could mind meld with them and make them forget.

Ugh. Not another Superman II stunt.

Okay would the crew seeing what the Romulans look like really affect Balance of Terror that much I mean the only one who I though was affected that much by the reveal was Stiles and I don't think he's in this movie.

 

[M'Sharak]

So my theory is that, although young Kirk wasn't expected to be born so soon (otherwise his mother wouldn't be in active duty anymore!), the shock of watching her husband die (maybe she sees the Kelvin exploding as the shuttle she's in escapes the carnage) makes Winona have a premature birth!
And so the big canon violation happens...

If Winona gives birth to both Spock and Kirk, then that is a huge canon violation.

Neat trick, though.

 

[cubbie]

thanks M'sharak!

 

[M'Sharak]

thanks M'sharak!

Hey, it was still funny. The "two Winonas" thing has been striking me as an odd coincidence ever since the casting announcements were made, earlier in the year.

 

[Rarewolf]

thanks M'sharak!

Hey, it was still funny. The "two Winonas" thing has been striking me as an odd coincidence ever since the casting announcements were made, earlier in the year.

Almost as odd as Leonard Nimoy & Leonard McCoy

 

[mswood]

There is no evidence of any canon violations. period.

What we do know, that the Romulans travel back through time (decades prior to TOS) and cause significant damages.

Once they go back in time the slate is wiped clean. There is at that point forward no canon to violate, we are set up with a new timeline of events and possibilities (ie Yesterday's Enterprise, which the writers even have mention in some interviews).

That causes things to change both on personal levels, but on far larger levels.

Just like how not having 1701-C made the federation more militaristic, changed costumes, and set designs, ect.

This situation allows the same, but on of course a budget where they can truly change everything they wish.

The only things that can be a violation of canon would be events that occur prior to the Romulans going back in time. And so far, we have seen nothing in footage that predates when the Romulans travel through time (perhaps Spock has a child predates this). But nothing we have seen of that shows any errors.

So we can have the (as adults) know who Romulans are, we can have changes in design (on every level) we can have even changes in basic character (as character is formed by events, and on a personal level who knows how many events have changed, could be minor in some cases or could be huge). We could have the Federation a very military like organization. We can have characters who are of different ages (as parents might have conceived at a different time, with the changes in the time line).

Literally every single references point can be changed and not be a violation of any thing. As long as the material before the Romulans travel through time doesn't violate anything. And really we know almost nothing about that time period.

 

[mswood]

In fact the movie allows for something that people have bitched about for decades with Trek. Many have complained about any time travel story because they know that the big reset button is just waiting to be pulled to put things back to where they started (or exceptionally close to it). I would guess for every single person who has ever made a comment similar to that, you are going to get what you wished for a time travel episode, where the reset button isn't pushed (though of course they might, but I would serious doubt it).

 

[gastrof]

Unless the elderly Spock's efforts in the film CORRECT changes that Nero and the Romulans have made by going back in time to begin with.

I don't think he puts it back exactly the way it was. In the end, we'll be stuck with a new continuity where "Balance of Terror" couldn't possibly happen the way it did originally.

Of course, there's the matter of whether or not the Kelvin's crew know it's Romulans attacking them, and whether or not they see any alien faces. (Or can report such Vulcan-like faces to Starfleet.)

We know Nero's ship looks nothing like a Romulan Bird of Prey, so if nobody sees the "aliens" on the squid-ship, no damage to BALANCE OF TERROR.

 

[M'Sharak]

thanks M'sharak!

Hey, it was still funny. The "two Winonas" thing has been striking me as an odd coincidence ever since the casting announcements were made, earlier in the year.

Almost as odd as Leonard Nimoy & Leonard McCoy

Okay, you've got me there, but you must admit that you'd have been likely (at any time since statistics have been recorded on such things) to find more named "Leonard" in an average group of a thousand or ten thousand people than named "Winona". Until Miss Ryder (and Ashley Judd's big sister Wynnona) first came into the public eye, I don't think I'd been aware of anyone by that name, but I knew plenty of Leonards.

 

[Luminus]

There is no evidence of any canon violations. period.

What we do know, that the Romulans travel back through time (decades prior to TOS) and cause significant damages.

Once they go back in time the slate is wiped clean. There is at that point forward no canon to violate, we are set up with a new timeline of events and possibilities (ie Yesterday's Enterprise, which the writers even have mention in some interviews).

That causes things to change both on personal levels, but on far larger levels.

Just like how not having 1701-C made the federation more militaristic, changed costumes, and set designs, ect.

This situation allows the same, but on of course a budget where they can truly change everything they wish.

The only things that can be a violation of canon would be events that occur prior to the Romulans going back in time. And so far, we have seen nothing in footage that predates when the Romulans travel through time (perhaps Spock has a child predates this). But nothing we have seen of that shows any errors.

So we can have the (as adults) know who Romulans are, we can have changes in design (on every level) we can have even changes in basic character (as character is formed by events, and on a personal level who knows how many events have changed, could be minor in some cases or could be huge). We could have the Federation a very military like organization. We can have characters who are of different ages (as parents might have conceived at a different time, with the changes in the time line).

Literally every single references point can be changed and not be a violation of any thing. As long as the material before the Romulans travel through time doesn't violate anything. And really we know almost nothing about that time period.

Can't argue with that logic.

 

[Supernova]

no, that is just a BIG thing for you fundies to obsess about.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/blaXXer/macroes/distractions.jpg

So, yeah...this thread is uh...about...her uh...her nacelles, right? Right. -Dan

 

[M'Sharak]

It keeps trying to be, but I think I'm going to convert it to links so it doesn't keep getting quoted so often.

 

[btflash]

Does anyone know at what point Winona steals the Enterprise?

.....


What's that you say? A cheap shot?

 

[blaXXer]

It keeps trying to be, but I think I'm going to convert it to links so it doesn't keep getting quoted so often.

B-b-b-b-b-but boobies!

 

[tauntme]

I'm more enraged that we don't know that girl's name than Kirk's birthplace.