That BIG canon violation (spoilers)

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Kirk's birthplace isn't established in canon.

That he lived in Iowa, probably for a long time as a child, is indicated by one line in "Star Trek IV:" "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

Now, I was born in the District of Columbia. My parents moved elsewhere when I was six months old (I managed to track them down. Hah!). I'm sure many other people have the same experience: if asked specifically to provide my place of birth I respond "Washington DC" but if asked "where I'm from" I answer with the name of the state where I spent my entire childhood and most of my life since.

 

[Franklin]

Part of the problems with these "canon violations" is so many people seem to be working from different defintions of canon. Just as I've harped on in another thread, I don't think it's ever been said on screen that NCC-1701 was built in San Francisco. And, it's never been said on screen that Kirk was born in Iowa. Only, as Polaris points out, that he's from there. Which only means he calls it home.

The heresy is probably simply the appearance of the Romulans attacking the Kelvin in the first place. Then everything changes from there. It all becomes up for grabs.

 

[ALF]

I get it know.
Before, Kirk was born on Earth and the Enterprise in space.
Now, JJ has shown us the light. The Enterprise was born on Earth and Kirk in space. What a topsy-turvey world. Whatever shall we do??

Let's talk about large yet delicate breasts of women, shall we.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Canon was violated! For god's sake, show me on the doll where canon was violated!

 

[blaXXer]

Canon was violated! For god's sake, show me on the doll where canon was violated!

 

[cooleddie74]

You may be right, but I wouldn't call changing the birthplace of Kirk a big canon violation. As long as he's raised in Iowa it's OK. (And even that should only be important to the people of Riverside.)

---------------

Even Jonathan Archer says in "North Star(ENT)" that he was born in upstate New York, after two previous seasons of saying or implying he grew up in San Francisco all his life or might even have been born there. IF Kirk ends up being born in space on a ship, that doesn't negate him being a citizen of Riverside, Iowa or spending 90-99% of his childhood there. Ronald Reagan only lived in Illinois for a relatively short period of his life but was and still is considered a native Illinoisan by most if not all presidential historians and authors.

 

[cooleddie74]

I thought we already knew the Kelvin's registry is the BIG canon violation?

no, that is just a BIG thing for you fundies to obsess about.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/blaXXer/macroes/distractions.jpg

Unless you have this chick's name and a link to where I can find naked pictures of her, you really are a cruel bastard to post that picture here.

\S/

Pictures like this help keep my own canon straight as an arrow.

 

[Logical Leopard]

I think the Kirk being born in space hypothesis is spot on. If that's a canon violation, it's one I can live with.

Of course, if it is true, this means that someone is going to have to volunteer to go to Riverside to change the sign. CONTINUITY MUST BE PRESERVED!!!!

 

[cooleddie74]

One doesn't have to be born somewhere to BE from somewhere. All Kirk says in terms of on-screen canon is that he's "from Iowa" in STAR TREK IV. That's it. Nothing before 1986 save mentions in one or two episodes his ancestors were from and lived in the United States and we assumed he was American too.

 

[Kryton]

Kirk's birthplace isn't established in canon.

That he lived in Iowa, probably for a long time as a child, is indicated by one line in "Star Trek IV:" "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

I seem to recall that Roddenberry's novelization of TMP had Kirk's inner monologue waxing poetic about his grandfather's fascination with the name "Tiberius" as well as his days growing up in the great plains of Iowa.

Certainly not technically canonical, but it was there fairly earlier on than TVH or TUC...IF I'm recalling correctly (it's been a long time since I've read it).

 

[Lyon_Wonder]

Riverside IA proclaimed itself the "future birthplace of Captain James T. Kirk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Future_Birthplace_of_Captain_James_T_Kirk.jpg

 

[Franklin]

Kirk's birthplace isn't established in canon.

That he lived in Iowa, probably for a long time as a child, is indicated by one line in "Star Trek IV:" "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space."

I seem to recall that Roddenberry's novelization of TMP had Kirk's inner monologue waxing poetic about his grandfather's fascination with the name "Tiberius" as well as his days growing up in the great plains of Iowa.

Certainly not technically canonical, but it was there fairly earlier on than TVH or TUC...IF I'm recalling correctly (it's been a long time since I've read it).

This brings up a good point. The thread is taking on the same talking passed each other as in the Captain April debates, or the debates on where the Enterprise was built. The problem is it all depends on what one calls canon. For strict "on screeners" (live action only) it's easy: there is no Captain April; nothing says where the Enterprise was built; and we only know for sure Kirk was from (as in lived in) Iowa.

 

[dave_R_treker]

I thought we already knew the Kelvin's registry is the BIG canon violation?

Have we ever before this seen another ship on screen with only a three digit registry number. I can't remember.

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought we already knew the Kelvin's registry is the BIG canon violation?

Have we ever before this seen another ship on screen with only a three digit registry number. I can't remember.

Star Trek III, the registry for USS Grissom was NCC-638.

 

[Gepard]

Have we ever before this seen another ship on screen with only a three digit registry number. I can't remember.

Star Trek III, the registry for USS Grissom was NCC-638.

Ah, but the Kelvin's registry is a four digit number--0514, where the first happens to be a zero. A three digit registry that leads with a zero would be 028, 014, 009, etc.

Se we have the lineages

NX-01, NX-02, up to NX-99,

NCC-009, NCC-028, NCC-638 and so on, up to NCC-999,

and NCC-0514, NCC-1017, NCC-1701, up to NCC-9999, etc.

There. Problem solved.

 

[The Wormhole]

Have we ever before this seen another ship on screen with only a three digit registry number. I can't remember.

Star Trek III, the registry for USS Grissom was NCC-638.

Ah, but the Kelvin's registry is a four digit number--0514, where the first happens to be a zero. A three digit registry that leads with a zero would be 028, 014, 009, etc.

Se we have the lineages

NX-01, NX-02, up to NX-99,

NCC-009, NCC-028, NCC-638 and so on, up to NCC-999,

and NCC-0514, NCC-1017, NCC-1701, up to NCC-9999, etc.

There. Problem solved.

Now you've confused me. I think I'll ignore you and continue my hatred of zero in another thread.

 

[dave_R_treker]

Star Trek III, the registry for USS Grissom was NCC-638.

Ah, but the Kelvin's registry is a four digit number--0514, where the first happens to be a zero. A three digit registry that leads with a zero would be 028, 014, 009, etc.

Se we have the lineages

NX-01, NX-02, up to NX-99,

NCC-009, NCC-028, NCC-638 and so on, up to NCC-999,

and NCC-0514, NCC-1017, NCC-1701, up to NCC-9999, etc.

There. Problem solved.

Now you've confused me.

That makes two of us.

 

[James Bond]

The EW report states that the movie's first act (the attack on the Kelvin) ends with a scene that'll make the purists go mad.
I suspect it will be:


























Kirk is born in SPACE and not in Iowa as we all believed!

Please, before you set your phasers to kill, bear with me:

The more recent news reporting the scenes showed by JJ Abrams clearly state that:
-Kirk is born in the same day his father gets killed
-Kirk's mother served on the Kelvin as well
-It's Kirk Sr's heroic doings that save his wife, son and a lot of other people too. Probably by having everybody evacuate and ramming the Kelvin into the Narada, as the trailer shows.

So my theory is that, although young Kirk wasn't expected to be born so soon (otherwise his mother wouldn't be in active duty anymore!), the shock of watching her husband die (maybe she sees the Kelvin exploding as the shuttle she's in escapes the carnage) makes Winona have a premature birth!
And so the big canon violation happens...

Am I right or should I stop with the heavy drinking?

I'm not sure I see a problem either way.

 

[Kanenas]

The EW report states that the movie's first act (the attack on the Kelvin) ends with a scene that'll make the purists go mad.
I suspect it will be:


























Kirk is born in SPACE and not in Iowa as we all believed!

Please, before you set your phasers to kill, bear with me:

The more recent news reporting the scenes showed by JJ Abrams clearly state that:
-Kirk is born in the same day his father gets killed
-Kirk's mother served on the Kelvin as well
-It's Kirk Sr's heroic doings that save his wife, son and a lot of other people too. Probably by having everybody evacuate and ramming the Kelvin into the Narada, as the trailer shows.

So my theory is that, although young Kirk wasn't expected to be born so soon (otherwise his mother wouldn't be in active duty anymore!), the shock of watching her husband die (maybe she sees the Kelvin exploding as the shuttle she's in escapes the carnage) makes Winona have a premature birth!
And so the big canon violation happens...

Am I right or should I stop with the heavy drinking?

I'm not sure I see a problem either way.

I suspect it goes as follows:

Kirk born in space OR mother saved while pregnant and makes it to earth in time for birth

Kirk shipped off to colony to get raised up with family only to go through that whole colony genocide thing.

Kirk goes back home to family in iowa where the movie picks up with the whole covette abuse situation.

 

[ALF]

Riverside IA proclaimed itself the "future birthplace of Captain James T. Kirk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Future_Birthplace_of_Captain_James_T_Kirk.jpg

They are gonna be pissed!