Original premise for Pic S.3 - Terry Matalas.....

[Danja]

Rod Roddenberry recently gave an interview saying that we’ve done this era of nostalgia and it’s time to move forward. I’ve largely enjoyed this era of Trek but I have to agree with him. Let’s move forward. Or let’s end it.

Too much of the fandom wants to go back to the era of Picard and Co. debating the finer points of moral philosophy while the Enterprise-D is under attack.

Disco tried a completely new ship and crew without any connection to the past whatsoever. The fans kept screaming, "But what about cANoN?"

So they brought in Pike and Spock.

Minus the connection to the past, Star Trek becomes just another generic sci-fi series.

That's why I'm not especially interested in "Legacy" or "Year One" as television series, and why I'm fine with IDW carrying the "Legacy" torch with Seven and Rafi comics because that's what tie-ins do, telling mythology-heavy stories for a small and dedicated fanbase who care about the nostalgia.

First, the comic book series is not "Legacy" (Seven and Raffi are separated).

A dark, complicated character like Seven of Nine deserves something more than being relegated to a comic book (which to me is one level above fan fiction). It's not official. It's not the equivalent of a series (Two minutes at the tail end of the final episode of "Star Trek: Picard" is not NEARLY enough.)

What would Year One accomplish that TOS, TAS, six feature films, the Kelvin trilogy, and SNW have not?

I want Seven of Nine put in the same league as Kirk, Picard, Archer, and Pike.

Spoiler: Star Trek Comic

I liked Seven's Borg link with Jack. I thought it was a nice touch.

 

[Tosk]

Disco tried a completely new ship and crew without any connection to the past whatsoever. The fans kept screaming, "But what about cANoN?"

So they brought in Pike and Spock.

Those "the fans" you're referring to can probably be forgiven such an expectation considering Disco's main character was implicitly connected to Spock right from the start.

 

[CampBOO!]

Disco tried a completely new ship and crew without any connection to the past whatsoever. The fans kept screaming, "But what about cANoN?"

The pilot episode of Disco had the sister of Spock and an appearance by Spock’s father.

A dark, complicated character like Seven of Nine deserves something more than being relegated to a comic book (which to me is one level above fan fiction). It's not official. It's not the equivalent of a series (Two minutes at the tail end of the final episode of "Star Trek: Picard" is not NEARLY enough.)

Uh, comics are “official.” They are licensed and approved by TPTB. They just aren’t “canon.”

First, bringing in Seven is no different than going back to previous Trek and bringing back Picard. Or Janeway. Or Pike.

And I struggle to see how doing a Seven of Nine series is any different than doing a Pike series. Or even moreso, I really struggle to see the difference between a Seven series or a Sulu series. Or a Worf series.

It’s vapor ware.

Look, I like Seven. I like Jeri Ryan. I don’t see a series with her being a viable choice.

We’ve done that nostalgia. It was a choice and was very hit or miss. Let’s try to move forward.

EDIT: for clarity and a few corrections, I have a bad headache this morning and it showed.

 

[Tosk]

The pilot episode of Disco had the sister of Spock and an appearance by Spock’s father

Yeah, it's funny to see Discovery season 1 (with appearances by or references to Sarek, Spock, Amanda Grayson, and Harry Mudd) be referred to as "without any connection to the past whatsoever".

 

[Detached Nacelle]

First, the comic book series is not "Legacy" (Seven and Raffi are separated).

I'm a big supporter of the Seven/Raffi relationship, I loved it in season 2. Among the sins of season 3 was them breaking up for 'drama' but having them as captain and xo on the same ship and in a relationship is dangerous territory. It can easily devolve into someone just writing a shipping fanfic.

A dark, complicated character like Seven of Nine deserves something more than being relegated to a comic book (which to me is one level above fan fiction). It's not official. It's not the equivalent of a series (Two minutes at the tail end of the final episode of "Star Trek: Picard" is not NEARLY enough.)

Seven seasons of television, headlining numerous novels and comics and multiple video game appearances is hardly a neglected character by the franchise. There are much worse served characters out there.

I want Seven of Nine put in the same league as Kirk, Picard, Archer, and Pike.

Does she need a third tv show for that? Does she need to be a captain for that? Why omit Sisko and Janeway from this list?

I would posit that Seven is already held in very high regard by the majority of the fanbase. Everything we know about what the hypothetical Legacy series would have been could have actually tarnished her reputation, by the fact she would be intrinsically linked to the nostalgia and nepo babies adventure hour.

I get it, you're a huge fan of Seven and you want more, licensed media is the only way as it stands. And after next year that will be true of every character from every show and some of them (Academy) will have actual plots left unresolved that are arguably more of a priority.

 

[David cgc]

A dark, complicated character like Seven of Nine deserves something more than being relegated to a comic book (which to me is one level above fan fiction). It's not official. It's not the equivalent of a series (Two minutes at the tail end of the final episode of "Star Trek: Picard" is not NEARLY enough.)

Considering Picard gave us not one but two fix-it fics for Nemesis, the wall between canon and fanfic is thinner than ever.

 

[Saul]

Stewart would have eaten up the dual role of Picard and Locutus. It's very Shakespearean. I can see him being in favor of such a pitch.

Really? I can imagine he wouldn't want to be in the Borg make-up again. If he was against seeing Picard in a typical starfleet uniform then I don't see him going for this. I feel like this is old news though and maybe Terry stated such a fact a few years ago...

Personally, I love the idea. It makes more sense as to why they stole his body.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

First, the comic book series is not "Legacy" (Seven and Raffi are separated).

"Legacy," in that sense, is not a thing. It was just an idea, an aspirational one, that CBS either passed on entirely or didn't choose to pursue.

I want Seven of Nine put in the same league as Kirk, Picard, Archer, and Pike.

That's fair, and I'm receptive to that.

I can imagine he wouldn't want to be in the Borg make-up again. If he was against seeing Picard in a typical starfleet uniform then I don't see him going for this.

If they had done a dual role for Stewart as Picard and Locutus, I think the appearances of Locutus would have been fairly minimal, with body doubles standing it for Stewart in many scenes and Stewart wearing only the face appliance in close-ups. I don't believe it would be difficult at all. If Stewart had said, if it were pitched to him, "Yeah, let's get Shakespearean here," they would have found a way to make it work.

 

[CampBOO!]

I mean, whether she has a series or not, Seven is now the captain of the Enterprise. She is in the same league with Archer, Pike, Kirk and Picard (and apparently Worf). Having a series isn’t going to change that.

But as much enjoyment as I’ve had since Disco premiered, there has been a lot of revisiting major characters. Hell, in main characters alone (not special guest stars or recurring), we’ve had Pike, Picard, Seven, Janeway, The Doctor (twice!), Wesley, Chakotay, Spock, Chapel, M’Benga, Uhura, Number One and Scotty. (Technically Reno and Vance too if you want to consider the Disco/SFA connection.) You add recurring and guests, it gets crazy. You add references (especially in LDS), it gets downright insane.

It’s been fun. But Rod isn’t wrong in suggesting new might be in order for the franchise.

 

[Smear-Gel]

First, bringing in Seven is no different than going back to previous Trek and bringing back Picard. Or Janeway. Or Pike.

And I struggle to see how doing a Seven of Nine series is any different than doing a Pike series. Or even moreso, I really struggle to see the difference between a Seven series or a Sulu series. Or a Worf series.

I think a Seven series could have been fine, I dont think Voyager is at the level of the other shows where they feel as endlessly mined, and I dont think its terrible to have a bridge character for an otherwise original story, like Janeway and Prodigy (though I guess season 2 does ties back to Voyager a lot more).

What I dont think could work is a Seven series, where her bridge crew are just the kids of the TNG bridge crew and the premise is based on checking in on what the other Legacy characters are doing (because that's the only thing Legacy fans talk about when thinking about story ideas).

In a similar sense, I would be perfectly fine watching a show of Uhura captaining the USS Leondegrance with an original crew and going to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to do a bunch of First Contacts like they said she did in Picard (though to be fair, I'd likely enjoy a bunch of randoms doing that just as much). What Im not interested in seeing is a show of Uhura with a bunch of other legacy characters doing some grand conspiracy story that changes the Federation forever and she needs help from young Riker and young Sisko to do it and they revisit iconic locations from TOS.

This is a bit hard to follow because I kinda counter my own points a lot but idk if it makes sense. Really if people want the combination of new characters and seeing old ones get thier due without things feeling like even more retreads the obvious solution is to make some of the actual new characters of the era return, which pretty much just means the characters from Lower Decks/Prodigy and Raffi who are the only ones that stand out not currently living in the 32nd century.

 

[CampBOO!]

I think a Seven series could have been fine, I dont think Voyager is at the level of the other shows where they feel as endlessly mined, and I dont think its terrible to have a bridge character for an otherwise original story, like Janeway and Prodigy (though I guess season 2 does ties back to Voyager a lot more).

Between Seven in Picard, Prodigy, specifically season 2, and the Doctor returning for SFA, I have to disagree that Voyager hasn’t been mined.

The one show I think does have a lot of room for potential that hasn’t been that deeply mined is DS9. But for some odd reason, that show has always been the black sheep of Trek as it comes to those in charge.

 

[Starflight]

I think it almost doesn't matter whether the cast of a new series are legacy characters or not - SNW's Pike, Chapel, Uhura, Una, Scotty, and M'Benga (and, to an extent, Kirk and Spock) are basically all new characters that just share names and nominal biographies with the TOS characters anyway.

Seven's role in PIC sucked because PIC was just crap in general; I wouldn't take it as proof of what a Seven-led series would necessarily look like. The Fenris Rangers stuff was dire but they could just as easily have written a new TOS-style show, had "Captain Seven" be written as basically "reasonable authority figure who sometimes mentions having once been a Borg" and trusted Ryan to carry it, and it'd have worked fine.

The main reason Legacy would have been a colossal trainwreck is that, iirc, the entire proposal was "Seven visits various one-shot TNG planets and reads articles off Memory Alpha for 45 minutes".

 

[Smear-Gel]

Between Seven in Picard, Prodigy, specifically season 2, and the Doctor returning for SFA, I have to disagree that Voyager hasn’t been mined.

The one show I think does have a lot of room for potential that hasn’t been that deeply mined is DS9. But for some odd reason, that show has always been the black sheep of Trek as it comes to those in charge.

It might just be a vibes thing. I dont personally feel the Voyager presence as much as the other two. I guess in a lot of cases, for Voyager its individual characters coming back but still engaging with the new, for TOS and TNG so much of it feels like "TOS" and "TNG" itself returning, and mostly engaging with itself.

One reason I dislike PIC S3 is it pretends basically nothing happened between the end of Nemesis and the start of Picard season 3. No mention of non Picard events or characters, earlier Picard cast is dropped as fast as possible, no Lower Decks ships, all the events earlier in Picard get undone or handwaved as quickly as possible so we can get back to Changeling and the Borg, helped make the season feel frozen in time. Seven, The Doctor and Janeway have come back, but mostly to engage with whatever is happening now.

Could also be my personal bias, from classic Trek I've seen some of TOS and TNG but no Voyager, so it might just feel more new to me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I would be perfectly fine watching a show of Uhura captaining the USS Leondegrance with an original crew and going to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to do a bunch of First Contacts like they said she did in Picard (though to be fair, I'd likely enjoy a bunch of randoms doing that just as much).

I'm down with that. Twenty years ago, this is something Pocket Books would have done an original-to-novels series about. "The studio's not going to do it, so why don't we...?"

The one show I think does have a lot of room for potential that hasn’t been that deeply mined is DS9. But for some odd reason, that show has always been the black sheep of Trek as it comes to those in charge.

Agreed, though Jake Sisko in Starfleet Academy was nice.

One reason I dislike PIC S3 is it pretends basically nothing happened between the end of Nemesis and the start of Picard season 3. No mention of non Picard events or characters, earlier Picard cast is dropped as fast as possible, no Lower Decks ships, all the events earlier in Picard get undone or handwaved as quickly as possible so we can get back to Changeling and the Borg, helped make the season feel frozen in time.

At times I feel like all three seasons of Picard are three completely separate one-season series under an umbrella title, if that makes sense. There's a little more connection between 1 and 2 than there is between 2 and 3, and for that reason I consider Picard, as a whole, to be less than the sum of its parts.

 

[CampBOO!]

Agreed, though Jake Sisko in Starfleet Academy was nice.

Absolutely. As was Odo’s cameo in Prodigy, his bucket’s cameo in Picard and the Cerritos visiting the station and seeing Kira and Quark in Lower Decks. But nothing like they’ve done with TNG or Voyager.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Boo-khat!]

Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine is not the savior of Star Trek, any more than bringing back William Shatner would be.

Just start the fuck over with something new and original. Do you have the ability to do that, Paramount?

 

[CampBOO!]

Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine is not the savior of Star Trek, any more than bringing back William Shatner would be.

Just start the fuck over with something new and original. Do you have the ability to do that, Paramount?

Is Paramount in the room with you right now?

Seriously, I do agree. And I do hope that Para can work to get away from the nostalgia that permeates through a lot of entertainment these days. I’m not holding my breath, though.

 

[Fire(BOO!)]

Is Paramount in the room with you right now?

Seriously, I do agree. And I do hope that Para can work to get away from the nostalgia that permeates through a lot of entertainment these days. I’m not holding my breath, though.

I have a feeling the nostalgia trend is going to be with us for awhile until studios stop being so cautious around green lighting spec scripts. In this IP era, they’re only rolling the dice on something with brand recognition.

 

[fireproof78]

Do you have the ability to do that, Paramount?

No, they do not.

I have a feeling the nostalgia trend is going to be with us for awhile until studios stop being so cautious around green lighting spec scripts. In this IP era, they’re only rolling the dice on something with brand recognition.

Exactly. They want a sure thing.

 

[Airmandan]

Whatever they do, for the love of god keep the lights on. Half the reason I can tolerate SNW is I can see the damn set and details.