Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x08 – “The Life of the Stars”

[Michael]

Kinda crazy that Ake and The Doctor are 17 years older just like that.

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.

Conversation might have gotten past this, but thinking about Jammer's review (which was much more negative than I would've given, even though I had many of the same criticisms) is in these sorts of "emotional" episodes, suspension of disbelief is very important.

It's a very, very thin line between an emotionally moving episode and an episode you think is trying to emotionally manipulate you. Once the "seams" start showing, it can all fall apart quickly.

Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. I just read Jammer’s review and while for me personally the episode and its emotional beats worked very well, I can totally see where he’s coming from with most points. The bottom line is just that where he can’t suspend his disbelief when it comes to the character’s emotional lives, I absolutely could.

When you're talking about how a Terrorist with anger issues and a suicide kick ruins a bell curve for measuring the expected, do you have any idea what happens every time some smart-ass gives your typical Klingon a typewriter?

Except she didn’t “write” any of what happened to the Doctor’s family. She merely introduced a randomized aspect to it. That’s literally the opposite of writing a specific outcome. But sure, you’re free to interpret the episode as incorrectly as you like.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.

I hope the waiting room had some good magazines.

 

[Michael]

I hope the waiting room had some good magazines.

Whereas I hope those shuttles have beds. Felt a bit strange to see them all spend their entire journey in those seats. Assuming Ake spent the days on the shuttle that were years for the Doctor, I really hope she didn’t have to sleep on the floor.

 

[tafkats]

Tarima's uniform reminded me of when TNG used to throw flashback people into a cheap version of the monster maroons.

Oh man ... I've always been vaguely annoyed that the TNG flashback uniforms on characters like Jack Crusher and the Enterprise-C crew didn't look as good as the movie uniforms, but never thought about why. And you're probably right — they just didn't want to pay for the trapunto stitching.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.


Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. I just read Jammer’s review and while for me personally the episode and its emotional beats worked very well, I can totally see where he’s coming from with most points. The bottom line is just that where he can’t suspend his disbelief when it comes to the character’s emotional lives, I absolutely could.


Except she didn’t “write” any of what happened to the Doctor’s family. She merely introduced a randomized aspect to it. That’s literally the opposite of writing a specific outcome. But sure, you’re free to interpret the episode as incorrectly as you like.

We saw Tuvok and Tom write a book together in Worst case Scenario.

It really is like writing a "pick a path novel" from the 80s.

Every Branch in the decision tree has to be fleshed out by the author.

 

[Michael]

We saw Tuvok and Tom write a book together in Worst case Scenario.

It really is like writing a "pick a path novel" from the 80s.

Every Branch in the decision tree has to be fleshed out by the author.

Except the Doctor’s family was not presented as some interactive holo-novel. There was no “story” to them and no “ending” to reach. The Doctor gave the characters some set parameters and B’Elanna added “randomized behavioral algorithms”. How much more clear could the Doctor have spelled it out when he said: “Events will simply unfold as a natural evolutions of probabilities within the program. But there’s no way to predict what those might be.”

 

[eschaton]

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.

It wasn't stated, but the "reunion" at the end seemed to imply that Ake was also returning back to the Academy for the first time since her departure.

Maybe instead of spending 17 years down with the Doctor and Sam, she just decided to spend two weeks alone in orbit? I guess it's less time wasted, but the question is, why wouldn't she have just returned, then?

Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. I just read Jammer’s review and while for me personally the episode and its emotional beats worked very well, I can totally see where he’s coming from with most points. The bottom line is just that where he can’t suspend his disbelief when it comes to the character’s emotional lives, I absolutely could.

I know I said this upthread, but I do think Steiner's performance being more lackluster than the rest of the cast (by far) is really hurting my ability to enjoy the stories which feature her strongly. For whatever reason, she's not bringing the range for me. But I could easily see another actor selling these lines just fine.

OTOH, the Doctor stuff kind of falls apart upon reflection, but Picardo sells it so fully that I'm completely willing to overlook it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe instead of spending 17 years down with the Doctor and Sam, she just decided to spend two weeks alone in orbit? I guess it's less time wasted, but the question is, why wouldn't she have just returned, then?

Got a pedicure on Risa.

 

[cooleddie74]

There's a Quentin Tarantino joke in there somewhere, and I'm not going reaching for it.

 

[tafkats]

Although the Sam plot was by far the more interesting to me of the two storylines in this episode, its resolution was far too pat, and far too convenient — in several different ways. None of those ways were screamingly awful, they just didn't live up to the show's usual standards.

1) The Kasquians living on a planet where time moves more quickly was an obvious contrivance whose sole purpose was to make the episode's resolution possible. It's kind of like how when Discovery visited New Eden, they went "Oh, hey! We totally forgot to mention that Owosekun grew up in a Luddite colony! We didn't just give her that backstory five minutes ago because we needed it for the plot, we promise!"

2) There were four entire seasons of Voyager after "Real Life," and as far as I can remember, the events of that episode were never mentioned again. But now, the simulated death of a non-sentient simulated person — whom he had known for a few weeks at the most — is a trauma that he's been carrying with him for 900 years and that makes him refuse to be seen as a mentor by anyone? (This is less about trying to predict the Doc's reaction to that episode, since obviously emotional reactions are unpredictable and vary from person to person, and more about the fact that nothing in his past portrayal lines up with the way "Real Life" is referenced in this episode.)

3) For an episode that spent most of 60 minutes taking its sweet fucking time to get anywhere, and that devoted scene after scene to showing a bunch of surly cadets sitting around arguing about literature, blowing through Sam's entire childhood in a series of quick cuts and then saying "okie-dokie, she just lived 17 years, and oh by the way the Doctor is her dad now" feels like a cheat.

 

[Michael]

It wasn't stated, but the "reunion" at the end seemed to imply that Ake was also returning back to the Academy for the first time since her departure.

Maybe instead of spending 17 years down with the Doctor and Sam, she just decided to spend two weeks alone in orbit? I guess it's less time wasted, but the question is, why wouldn't she have just returned, then?

I really think she spent the time on the shuttle in orbit, yeah. Or in a sort of waiting room created by the Kasqians, as @Nerys Myk suggests. As for why she didn’t just return home in that time? Well, presumably because the journey to Earth takes longer than the handful of days the Doctor and SAM were away?

I know I said this upthread, but I do think Steiner's performance being more lackluster than the rest of the cast (by far) is really hurting my ability to enjoy the stories which feature her strongly. For whatever reason, she's not bringing the range for me. But I could easily see another actor selling these lines just fine.

OTOH, the Doctor stuff kind of falls apart upon reflection, but Picardo sells it so fully that I'm completely willing to overlook it.

I honestly think Steiner’s performance is fine. Mind you, nothing extraordinary, but very much serviceable for the role. She has a somewhat timid way of delivering her lines, which gives her character a sense of youthful insecurity. She definitely seems a little inexperienced as an actress, but I actually think that helps in realizing Tarima as someone who’s finding her voice and place in life.

 

[Fateor]

Given that most galactic powers had mastered time travel and fought in a war with weaponised time travel there are undoubtedly many defences against it to prevent it and temporal sensors so that incursions can be detected before the changes ripple forward.

Which would require temporal technology... Which is banned...

Wanting to undo the Burn may be a noble goal but time travel can have unforseen consequences. Same reason Flash and Superman don't just undo every single bad thing that happens, tragedies are a natural part of life.

Most people who lost someone or suffered from the Burn wouldn't care that things "might" turn out worse.

And now that the Federation has announced the how, where, and what behind the Burn it only takes a single time traveler with a bomb to prevent it.

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.

According to her narration at the end she did.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

In case they need her for something?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Which would require temporal technology... Which is banned...

I've a feeling that with banned technology in the real world, there are exceptions.

 

[Manticore]

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.

She did say something like "The Doctor and Sam spent 17 years on Kasq ... and they weren't the only ones."

I know I said this upthread, but I do think Steiner's performance being more lackluster than the rest of the cast (by far) is really hurting my ability to enjoy the stories which feature her strongly. For whatever reason, she's not bringing the range for me. But I could easily see another actor selling these lines just fine.

She was great in the scene where she was drunk, but otherwise, I agree completely.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I wanted to address this, since you are the first person I’m seeing who said this. Did I miss this or did they explicitly state that Ake also spent those 17 years on Kasq? I was under the impression she didn’t and I think it would undercut the importance of the Doctor deciding to spend those 17 years with SAM.

At the end Ake says "Sam and The Doctor lived 17 years in two Earth weeks. They're not the only ones."

I reckon she means that Sam and the Doctor were in the accelerated childhood zone together for 17 literal years, but she and everyone else had a long couple of weeks as well.

 

[Michael]

2) There were four entire seasons of Voyager after "Real Life," and as far as I can remember, the events of that episode were never mentioned again. But now, the simulated death of a non-sentient simulated person — whom he had known for a few weeks at the most — is a trauma that he's been carrying with him for 900 years and that makes him refuse to be seen as a mentor by anyone? (This is less about trying to predict the Doc's reaction to that episode, since obviously emotional reactions are unpredictable and vary from person to person, and more about the fact that nothing in his past portrayal lines up with the way "Real Life" is referenced in this episode.)

I’m afraid we have to chalk up the events from “Real Life” never being mentioned again to the fact that it’s a television show from the 90s and the producers were practically notorious for pressing the reset button every week, trying to not confuse casual viewers with too much continuity. It’s the same reason why in the original episode we have to be introduced to the Doctor’s family, see them become more realistic versions of themselves and witness his daughter die of an accident all in one short 43-minute episode. If they had done this story in the 2000s, it could have been an entire arc spread over an entire season.

3) For an episode that spent most of 60 minutes taking its sweet fucking time to get anywhere, and that devoted scene after scene to showing a bunch of surly cadets sitting around arguing about literature, blowing through Sam's entire childhood in a series of quick cuts and then saying "okie-dokie, she just lived 17 years, and oh by the way the Doctor is her dad now" feels like a cheat.

I fully expect this to come up in future episodes, to be honest. This episode was about saying that the Doctor has now become SAM’s parent, having raised her for 17 years. Future episodes will hopefully show us what that means and how it changed both her and him.

According to her narration at the end she did.

You mean this line: “SAM and the Doctor lived 17 years in two Earth weeks. They are not the only ones.” I admit that threw me for a loop as well. But upon reflection I think Ake is actually referencing the cadets and the play. The narrative of “Our Town” spans more than a decade. Well, that’s my theory at least. I’m sure they would have been more clear if the intention was that Ake spent those 17 years on Kasq as well. Why would she have?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Except the Doctor’s family was not presented as some interactive holo-novel. There was no “story” to them and no “ending” to reach. The Doctor gave the characters some set parameters and B’Elanna added “randomized behavioral algorithms”. How much more clear could the Doctor have spelled it out when he said: “Events will simply unfold as a natural evolutions of probabilities within the program. But there’s no way to predict what those might be.”

Watching episode again, for perspective...

1. You're quoting the fool who was conned before he has any idea how deep the shit he is getting into from being misled by a woman reading a psycho sexual murder porn in her spare time.

2. Jeffery is buying or selling drugs from or to those Klingon children who are possibly only 4 years old. I bet he stole the Doctor's prescription PADD.

3. Did Tom lie about eating french toast, of did he sleep over with a fancy lady, to use their replicator rations?

4. Human dad pissy about child getting messed up by Klingon ritual Is B'Elanna's childhood. Klingon/human hybrid growing up faster and stronger than her human counterparts, forced to play games with older stronger kids, that's sooooooo B'Elanna's childhood too. Refusing to cook food for A MAN? Tom must have made his own French Toast. B'Elanna's daddy abandoned her because she was a horrible daughter, the Doctor must be punished for being a father who doesn't try very hard.

5. Program Beta = 2, Rho =17. The Doctor had already finished dozens of unsatisfying families, before B'Elanna stuck her nose into his business.

 

[Ceridwen]

Time Travel is so easy to do in Star Trek that anyone with a Warp Drive and sufficiently powerful computational device can do it.

The only way the current timeline can exists at all given the billions of beings who would want to undo the Burn, requires either a perfect galaxy wide defense against temporal alteration, or a complete banning of any knowledge about time travel.

The real answer is that people are breaking the law all the time and going back to stop the Burn every day.

They just keep blowing up right before they get there cuz they can't get to before the Burn without hitting the Burn itself.

It would be funny if it weren't so... Well, no, it's still a little funny.

 

[Tosk]

But upon reflection I think Ake is actually referencing the cadets and the play. The narrative of “Our Town” spans more than a decade. Well, that’s my theory at least.

I certainly took her line to mean the students. They'd just gone through something intense together in a short space of time. It's like saying, "I spent a week there one night."