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Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x04 – “Vox in Excelso”

Rate the episode...

  • 10 - Excellent!

    Votes: 18 12.8%
  • 9

    Votes: 37 26.2%
  • 8

    Votes: 42 29.8%
  • 7

    Votes: 21 14.9%
  • 6

    Votes: 9 6.4%
  • 5

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • 4

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • 3

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • 2

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • 1 - Terrible.

    Votes: 5 3.5%

  • Total voters
    141
The culture may have degraded in complexity since Qo'noS was left uninhabitable by the Burn. 125 years of reduced contact with the rest of the galaxy, mass casualties and political chaos and you might have a Klingon society that just isn't what it used to be.
That's possible and maybe we have to go with that to fit what we saw onscreen. But I'm not sure that mass casualties and chaos would produce more similarities. Seems like more chaos would create more diversification. But who knows.

I just know I rolled my eyes the end of the episode.
 
Across previous series, the Klingons are portrayed less as a caricature of warrior culture and more as a society with internal politics, class tensions (Great Houses versus lower-born officers like Martok), ideological splits, and personal moral variation. Honor remains central, but what honor means varies dramatically depending on who’s invoking it.
When cultures are dying those facets become more simplified. Complexity depended greatly on the story being told. They were not always honor driven in TOS, and often duplicitous in their dealings, requiring a stronger force to tell them what to do.

Ultimately, nuance will break down as they lose sight of the purpose of traditions.
 
When cultures are dying those facets become more simplified. Complexity depended greatly on the story being told. They were not always honor driven in TOS, and often duplicitous in their dealings, requiring a stronger force to tell them what to do.

Ultimately, nuance will break down as they lose sight of the purpose of traditions.
I'm not sure that I buy that simplification process. Look at Native Americans. In face of the colonizers and their decimation, some helped them while others didn't. Some groups formed alliances and engaged in trade, seeing opportunities to gain goods or military advantages against rival tribes. Others resisted fiercely through warfare, attempting to defend their land, autonomy, and way of life. Still others tried to adapt by negotiating treaties or incorporating select European practices.

In TNG and DS9, the very meaning of Klingon honor changed from individual to individual and situation to situation. It wasn't a one size fits all as portrayed in this SFA episode.

I will agree that they needed a simple solution for the resolution, so they wrote one in. As I've said, it just made me roll my eyes.

Cheers! :beer:
 
I'm not sure that I buy that simplification process. Look at Native Americans. In face of the colonizers and their decimation, some helped them while others didn't. Some groups formed alliances and engaged in trade, seeing opportunities to gain goods or military advantages against rival tribes. Others resisted fiercely through warfare, attempting to defend their land, autonomy, and way of life. Still others tried to adapt by negotiating treaties or incorporating select European practices.

In TNG and DS9, the very meaning of Klingon honor changed from individual to individual and situation to situation. It wasn't a one size fits all as portrayed in this SFA episode.

I will agree that they needed a simple solution for the resolution, so they wrote one in. As I've said, it just made me roll my eyes.

Cheers! :beer:
It reminded me of Errand of Mercy so it didn't bother me.

I look over at the Roman empire, and the breakdown of the tradition of family, the storge, and respecting the father breaking down. It became more simplified as the Empire faded.
 
Let's assume you're correct. That still indicates they're a one-dimensional, mono culture type alien species *because* they all need the same exact type of pandering just to do the blatantly obvious smart thing to do.

They're no depth or diversity there.

Are you really incapable of understanding that?!
BS The Klingons talk a lot about honor but really its face. The whole mock battle was to save face. This is a major component to their society EDIT removed
 
^ I‘ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume we posted at the same time. I will not be inclined to let it slide one more time. Strike a more respectful tone or don‘t post here at all. These are your options.
 
It reminded me of Errand of Mercy so it didn't bother me.

I look over at the Roman empire, and the breakdown of the tradition of family, the storge, and respecting the father breaking down. It became more simplified as the Empire faded.
Well, no, that's objectively NOT what history records regarding the Roman Empire as it faded. Life in the Empire did transform in various ways but it wasn't simplified.

At any rate, yes, it is like Errand of Mercy. And while I love that episode (and TOS in general) that sort of ending would also make me roll my eyes today.
 
Okay, that’ll be enough of that! Talk to other posters with a modicum of respect or it will be a warning.
You forgot one offender which I request you add.

I show respect until someone violates it first and then I will reply in kind. As you can clearly see in the sequence of posts.
 
Well, no, that's objectively NOT what history records regarding the Roman Empire as it faded. Life in the Empire did transform in various ways but it wasn't simplified.

At any rate, yes, it is like Errand of Mercy. And while I love that episode (and TOS in general) that sort of ending would also make me roll my eyes today.
Simplified perhaps is a poor word. Lip service perhaps a better one.


But, regardless if Errand of Mercy is good then this is good. Mileage will vary
 
BS The Klingons talk a lot about honor but really its face. The whole mock battle was to save face. This is a major component to their society EDIT removed
Yes, I do get that and I've stated that in this thread several times.

My point is that it portrays the Klingons as a simplistic monoculture that is easily manipulated. I mean really, they ALL need the exact same pandering to make the obvious smart choice? A bit simplistic. I also don't think the Klingons are that dumb.
 
Simplified perhaps is a poor word. Lip service perhaps a better one.


But, regardless if Errand of Mercy is good then this is good. Mileage will vary
I like Errand of Mercy except for its ending. But given that TOS had to return to the status quo at the end of every episode given the network requirements of the time, they didn't have a choice about using a reset button solution. (No, I know that this episode wasn't a reset given the situation but it was a similar simple solution.)

So, at the very least, I'm being consistent here about this ending.
 
You forgot one offender which I request you add.

I show respect until someone violates it first and then I will reply in kind. As you can clearly see in the sequence of posts.
Well, I’m afraid this isn‘t fucking kindergarten where “He did it first!” might be an expected excuse. I let it slide that one time where you responded in kind to the initial taunt. But then you had to do it again, and probably would do it yet again if I hadn‘t said anything. I trust we don‘t have to debate point by point why it‘s not okay to repeatedly tell other posters they are “incapable of understanding” something. So please just accept what I told you and that other poster and continue posting without using such language.
 
Yes, I do get that and I've stated that in this thread several times.

My point is that it portrays the Klingons as a simplistic monoculture that is easily manipulated. I mean really, they ALL need the exact same pandering to make the obvious smart choice? A bit simplistic. I also don't think the Klingons are that dumb.
What manipulation? There was no manipulation of any kind. It was a ceremonial battle and both sides understood this
 
I like Errand of Mercy except for its ending. But given that TOS had to return to the status quo at the end of every episode given the network requirements of the time, they didn't have a choice about using a reset button solution. (No, I know that this episode wasn't a reset given the situation but it was a similar simple solution.)

So, at the very least, I'm being consistent here about this ending.
I always liked Errand of Mercy because they have to have an external power say they're being stupid. Kor just wanted to fight as a proof of his strength and Kirk is convinced they're just wrong.

Not sure what complexity is there so I'm with how Klingons have variations of simplicity over complexity.
 
No, I didn't confuse anything. Apparently, you were unable to comprehend the differences showed onscreen.
Nope.

I understand these shows just fine. They're not particularly complicated stories, especially at this point.

It's not like you get anything that other people don't.
 
Nope.

I understand these shows just fine. They're not particularly complicated stories, especially at this point.
Well, I've spelled it out in an earlier post. I guess we saw it differently and we obviously don't have to agree.

But no, I didn't misunderstand anything as you implied (not appreciated).
 
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