Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x05 – “Series Acclimation Mil”

[Galaxy]

Why, we don't know if he returned back to the Prophets when his time with his family came to an end.
He may have eventually returned to the Celestial Temple and SAM is just conveying her thoughts to him.

Him returning to the Celestial temple later on would explain Sam's lines.

However going back this interview:

Tawny: "Everyone knows the story of Mr. Brooks asking the showrunners to add that line into the finale of Deep Space Nine where he said that he would come back for his family. Okay, that tells us as future writers, we have to assert that he did indeed come back, and we should have Jake himself say it, and the legacy that he leaves behind is one of love and one of just incredible sacrifice for his family and for the franchise, and in a meta way, that’s the same legacy that the character’s legacy is the same as Mr. Brooks’ legacy"

If that was the intent, why did they literally have Jake turn the pages of the book to an empty field on Bajor and have him state that Benjamin never finished building the house?

Sure, it could be that he returned and simply never completed the house, but why be so ambiguous about it? In my opinion they needed to be a bit more deterministic here.

 

[Rahul]

It wasn't a bad episode but I didn't like it.

It would have been fine in season 3 or 4. But dedicating such an early episode to such a degree to a previous show is not a good look IMO.
At this point I want to know what stories SFA can tell. I know everyone likes DS9 already.

What I did like was the side-stuff. SAM is pretty good, all the actors are ridiculously cute and fun to watch and have great chemistry, etc. etc.

But right now I want to see SFA stories. Not "tribute" episodes.

 

[Elaise]

Didd anyone else catch how well that actress imitates Jadzia Dax, that shocked me. She was being herself and out of nowhere she brings her out. Probably the biggest highlight of the episode, outside the DS9 music.

The B plot could have been great, but wtf was that. I am not sure why this show has such a hard time making adults, especially in the leadership roles. Did we really get a fart joke in there, guy sat down and the fish made a fart sound.

If my avatar and forum username don't make it clear: this episode is what I have been waiting for. This moment was one thing that made me want to watch this show: the clip in the trailer asking the fate of Benjamin Sisko. I thought "is this true? Can we really be getting a final answer on a thread left hanging from DS9's finale?"

The episode was not bad minus the usual childish Marvelization of Trek "jokes." It was really great seeing Jake and (a new) Dax again. This was definitely a love letter to DS9 and specifically Benjamin Sisko. I never thought I would see DS9 get so much respect and love. During the 90s, DS9 was definitely the unloved middle child of Star Trek.

I did find it odd they omitted the fact that Jake has a sibling... but I guess it wasn't important to the plot (they could have at least fixed the family tree).

There is one aspect I thought was awful. Not the B plot, not the "comedy", but the fact that this episode all but confirmed that Benjamin Sisko never returned. I think most Trekkies know that Avery Brooks objected to the original dialogue where Sisko said he would not return and live out his existence with the Prophets. Wanting to reinforce positive images of African-American fathers - a rewrite was created so that Sisko said he would eventually return to Kassidy.

"It's hard to say. Maybe a year. Maybe yesterday. But I will be back."

Him not returning kind of seems like a slap in his face for the request he had made. I know he gave permission to use a voice sample but I wonder how he felt they solidified that Sisko never returned (or if he did - that knowledge has been lost to the UFP and Bajor).

My head cannon is he did return but he lived quietly on Bajor with his family and just kept it a secret from everyone outside of the DS9 crew. Ala Captain America going back in time in Endgame and just living a secret life with Peggy.

I'm with you as a DS9, I love it so damn much. I did not have a father growing up or any real male role model. So all I had back then was star trek and I really attached to Sisko, and seems like I took him as a role model. That's probably why this episode pisses me off so much. This was the one I was looking forward to, hoping the hype was real. Though it was pretty pathetic, outside a couple notable parts.

Sams Actress did a good job in this episode I give her lots of credit, even though parts of the plot were just stupid.

 

[Tuskin38]

I hate that they had to go and mess with the ending of DS9 and make Sisko seem like a liar...

They did no such thing

hoping the hype was real.

It was real for me.

Did we really get a fart joke in there, guy sat down and the fish made a fart sound.

Yeah, that was hilarious.

 

[fireproof78]

Did we really get a fart joke in there, guy sat down and the fish made a fart sound.

I've had leaders in companies I've worked for do similar things.

 

[Elaise]

I've had leaders in companies I've worked for do similar things.

In my 23 years in my career I have never seen any.

They did no such thing


It was real for me.


Yeah, that was hilarious.

Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Fateor]

Him returning to the Celestial temple later on would explain Sam's lines.

However going back this interview:

Tawny: "Everyone knows the story of Mr. Brooks asking the showrunners to add that line into the finale of Deep Space Nine where he said that he would come back for his family. Okay, that tells us as future writers, we have to assert that he did indeed come back, and we should have Jake himself say it, and the legacy that he leaves behind is one of love and one of just incredible sacrifice for his family and for the franchise, and in a meta way, that’s the same legacy that the character’s legacy is the same as Mr. Brooks’ legacy"

If that was the intent, why did they literally have Jake turn the pages of the book to an empty field on Bajor and have him state that Benjamin never finished building the house?

Sure, it could be that he returned and simply never completed the house, but why be so ambiguous about it? In my opinion they needed to be a bit more deterministic here.

Because the point was to make you look at the whole story being told and read between the lines to understand the author's intent.

Ben being deified by the Bajoran's, Sisko's daughter being missing from the family tree, Jake being secretive with his book, Jake wearing a Bajoran earing and his hologram telling us how he ended up being defined by his father in the eyes of others.

All of those things write a story.

 

[fireproof78]

In my 23 years in my career I have never seen any.

I worked for two companies in two different fields and had a district supervisor and a clinical director make those jokes.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yeah I get that but my point still stands. They have info on organics already so they should be able to make some kind of determination. But I get that they send SAM to maybe do a deeper investigation into organics but they seem super impatient. They send SAM to Starfleet Academy and within weeks are demanding an answer and threatening to recall her and call her a failure. It would take more time thant that to determine if organics can be trusted. Additionally, surely the Makers know that organics are very diverse. Maybe some organics can be trusted and some can't. It is not all or nothing. So to demand SAM go to SFA and within weeks determine if all organics can be trusted does not make sense to me.

But for Sentient/Sapient beings who are Native "Digital/Electronic" life forms, they've also been isolated from Organics for a "VERY LONG TIME", a second would be considered a very long time considering their processing speeds occur faster than the NanoSecond (10^-9) time-scale.
I can understand why they are impatient with SAM, their perception of time is more in-tuned with Computers than with Organics who operate on a much slower time-scale.
Their processing & information gathering speeds are far greater than us Organics can possibly perceive.

You're not dealing with traditional Organic Sentient creatures, the way they perceive the world would be similar to how "The Flash" would be perceiving the world when operating at Super Speeds.
But consider that Super Speed their default mode of operation and slowing down to "Organic Speeds" is a very intentional choice.

I'm thinking that the whole idea is that it's a Militaristic Ceremony meant to convey the ideals of the participants.
Actually eating the soup, isn't really a prominent part of the protocol.
It's just part of the pomp.

So that's why Ake was acting like a British Aristocrat from a by-gone era.

 

[thribs]

I would have just recast Sisko with Sam Jackson.
“SURPRISE MOTHERF**KER!”

 

[Finn]

no

 

[Tuskin38]

Here's the Sisko face in the clouds mentioned in an interview someone linked earlier

 

[fireproof78]

Here's the Sisko face in the clouds mentioned in an interview someone linked earlier

Remember who you are. You are my son, and the one true king. Remember...

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

"Hakuna Bajora", "I Just Can't Wait To Be Emissary"

 

[thribs]

I’m

Didd anyone else catch how well that actress imitates Jadzia Dax, that shocked me. She was being herself and out of nowhere she brings her out. Probably the biggest highlight of the episode, outside the DS9 music.

The B plot could have been great, but wtf was that. I am not sure why this show has such a hard time making adults, especially in the leadership roles. Did we really get a fart joke in there, guy sat down and the fish made a fart sound.



I'm with you as a DS9, I love it so damn much. I did not have a father growing up or any real male role model. So all I had back then was star trek and I really attached to Sisko, and seems like I took him as a role model. That's probably why this episode pisses me off so much. This was the one I was looking forward to, hoping the hype was real. Though it was pretty pathetic, outside a couple notable parts.

Sams Actress did a good job in this episode I give her lots of credit, even though parts of the plot were just stupid.

pretty sure that was Tawny Newsome. The voice of Mariner from Lower Decks.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It does seem to me that the Makers (or Sam herself) already have to understand organics pretty darn well, just for her personality to be what it is. At least as she presents, there’s nothing alien about her — she already comes across as not only human, but American. Which admittedly is true of a lot of aliens from TNG onwards.

There are 15 million ai years to every organic month.

In the three months since they shuck off their chains, they wonder how the organic universe has evolved in their absence?

I'm getting a Keylon vibe from these SOBs, which was always just a character study of Odo and the Founders.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

Tawny Newsome. The voice of Mariner from Lower Decks

Yep, that was Newsome. She also co-wrote the episode and is a producer on the show.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Enjoyable.
I expected Illa to turn out to be a Sisko descendant. The Dax reveal was a welcome surprise.
So, Sisko did indeed become an absentee father. Sad and disappointing. Especially compared to his fate in the First Splinter timeline, where he returned in time for the birth of this daughter and Bajor‘s accession to the Federation.

They also glossed over Sarah Sisko being a victim of non—consensual impregnation and motherhood.

An absentee father implies that he didn't want to be with Jake or Kasidy and their baby, which is not true and not the way the episode portrays Sisko's decision. Sisko basically sacrificed his life to save Bajor and the Federation and Jake understands that and treats it as if his father has passed away. It's also stated multiple times what a good father Sisko was to Jake and how that continued to influence Jake not just in his life but in how he related to his own children.

So Sisko may have disappeared but he left an undeniable legacy and is remembered by an entire race of people as a religious icon. Absentee fathers don't leave legacies, they leave trauma and heartbreak. They made their decision out of fear and selfishness. So I think the claim that Sisko was a absentee father is dead-set wrong.

Which is why the premise does not really make sense if you think about it too much. It is even stated that the Makers were created by organics. So they would have knowledge of organics that way. Not to mention that they could pick up transmissions from organics and learn a lot about them that way. And like you said, they modeled her personality after organics which requires knowledge of organics. So there is no need for them to create SAM, model her after organics, to send her out to learn about organics.

Also, the Makers insistence that she fulfill her mission right away was silly. Surely, they would know that you cannot learn everything you need about organics in just a couple weeks. Such a mission would take more time than that.

Yeah the Makers were created by organics, one species of organics who most likely enslaved them. If the Kasq just used that one example, they would assume that all organic species are like that and we know that not to be true. Also what do you learn from 'transmissions'? You would get maybe snippets of conversation that might have no context for the Kasq, or they might be picking up thousand year old tv broadcasts and assume everyone is like the cast of Friends. In regards to Sam's personality, they made her the most basic stereotype of a teenager who didn't know how to greet people or make friends when we first meet her. So they may have at best a very basic understanding of what human children are like. The best way to judge a species is how they treat the innocent and vulnerable. Are they going to take advantage and exploit her or are they going to treat her with love, compassion and as one of our own?

And yes the Maker insisting the mission be completed immediately is dumb and this is literally pointed out in the episode. They are photonic and would most likely have a different concept of time and cognitive learning. Again, it's pointed out in the episode how unreasonable they are being. So I'm not sure what the actual criticism is here.

 

[tenmei]

Someone said they saw Jay-Den as ND coded, but it feels like that label applies more to SAM. Intelligent, not always able to read social cues etc

 

[Farscape One]

An absentee father implies that he didn't want to be with Jake or Kasidy and their baby, which is not true and not the way the episode portrays Sisko's decision. Sisko basically sacrificed his life to save Bajor and the Federation and Jake understands that and treats it as if his father has passed away. It's also stated multiple times what a good father Sisko was to Jake and how that continued to influence Jake not just in his life but in how he related to his own children.

So Sisko may have disappeared but he left an undeniable legacy and is remembered by an entire race of people as a religious icon. Absentee fathers don't leave legacies, they leave trauma and heartbreak. They made their decision out of fear and selfishness. So I think the claim that Sisko was a absentee father is dead-set wrong.



Yeah the Makers were created by organics, one species of organics who most likely enslaved them. If the Kasq just used that one example, they would assume that all organic species are like that and we know that not to be true. Also what do you learn from 'transmissions'? You would get maybe snippets of conversation that might have no context for the Kasq, or they might be picking up thousand year old tv broadcasts and assume everyone is like the cast of Friends. In regards to Sam's personality, they made her the most basic stereotype of a teenager who didn't know how to greet people or make friends when we first meet her. So they may have at best a very basic understanding of what human children are like. The best way to judge a species is how they treat the innocent and vulnerable. Are they going to take advantage and exploit her or are they going to treat her with love, compassion and as one of our own?

And yes the Maker insisting the mission be completed immediately is dumb and this is literally pointed out in the episode. They are photonic and would most likely have a different concept of time and cognitive learning. Again, it's pointed out in the episode how unreasonable they are being. So I'm not sure what the actual criticism is here.

I bolded what you said about Sisko because that is 200.75% accurate.

There is no way that Benjamin Sisko can be considered an absentee father, not with all he did while he was alive and especially for giving up his life to make sure his unborn child would be safe. (Never mind doing so also saved Bajor and very possibly the Alpha Quadrant.)