Starfleet Academy General Discussion Thread

[Jason X-Mas]

It's really not. This is the dumb assumptions that people apply based on nothing but their own biases.

I think it's more based on it being created by people who created Discovery. People simply expect more of the same. Which seems logical because if they wanted something truly different they would have hired new people to make a new show. Just like how all Berman shows contain certain traits and tone in all of them, it means all Kurtzman shows will also be connected in a similar way.

The question is will it be a good version of this like SNW or bad one like Discovery. I think the odds are it being more Discovery than SNW. It's not promising when you see things like the group photo of the teens looking like a promotion photo for something you would have likely seen on the CW, just a few years ago. The show creators have been very clear the point of the show is to bring in new and younger fans.

They aren't going for a prestige tv crowd or old people with nostalgia. It''s the youngsters who like things like Tik Tok and frankly I am not exactly sure about all the things young people are into but I do know it's not really tv. Not like it is with older people .Tv and movies don't seem to matter to them as much as they did to previous generations. Which is fine. My generation didn't hangout out in malt shops and listen to radio programs. But at the same time I don't think it bolds well for this show..

The issue I think with Trek is frankly it's old. Even when you update it for modern audiences you can only go so far, while still keeping it Star Trek. Makes sense to me that most people who like Trek are going to basically be old people and young people with old people tastes in entertainment. At some point Trek will become totally irrelevant as boomers and Gen-Xers die and even though that is sad I think it's just something that happens. Young people will have their new things. Like the vr-holodecks that are coming with the help of AI.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Just like how all Berman shows contain certain traits and tone in all of them, it means all Kurtzman shows will also be connected in a similar way.

Can you cite an example. I can watch a Berman era episode and a Kurzman era episode and it all just feels like Star Trek to me. Other than 90s camera quality and props but that is about the time not the people behind it.

The show creators have been very clear the point of the show is to bring in new and younger fans.

That is not the way Jonathan Frakes tells it.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

I think it's more based on it being created by people who created Discovery. People simply expect more of the same. Which seems logical because if they wanted something truly different they would have hired new people to make a new show. Just like how all Berman shows contain certain traits and tone in all of them, it means all Kurtzman shows will also be connected in a similar way.

And are they? Thus far the opinions are decidingly mixed.

Tv and movies don't seem to matter to them as much as they did to previous generations. Which is fine. My generation didn't hangout out in malt shops and listen to radio programs. But at the same time I don't think it bolds well for this show..

Tell you know little of young people without telling me you know little about young people.

At some point Trek will become totally irrelevant as boomers and Gen-Xers die and even though that is sad I think it's just something that happens. Young people will have their new things.

If one things this is what is happening then one will have their biases confirmed.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Academy is showing off people becoming more and it's not even aired and being treated poorly.

So what. People can feel the way they want after seeing the preview. It shouldn't spil it for you.

The point is that it won't be made the way many who love the Berman era want it to be.

Too bad. The Berman era especially from tng to voy was excellent. Far better than what kurtman has brought us.

 

[Santa Kang]

I think it's more based on it being created by people who created Discovery.

Which seems logical because if they wanted something truly different they would have hired new people to make a new show

Starfleet Academy created by Gaia Violo Showrunners Noga Landau and Alex Kurtzman.
Discovery created by Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman Showrunners Bryan Fuller, Berg and Harberts. Alex Kurtzman. Michelle Paradise.

Violo has no prior Star Trek credits.
Showrunner Noga Landau has no prior Star Trek credits.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

So what. People can feel the way they want after seeing the preview. It shouldn't spil it for you.

It doesn't. It's my typical disappointment at the lack of diversity in opinions on Star Trek or reserving judgement.

Too bad. The Berman era especially from tng to voy was excellent. Far better than what kurtman has brought us.

It's not a competition. It's Star Trek. I didn't like VOY but you do. That Trek is out there that you or I don't like shouldn't spoil Star Trek for us, right?

 

[TRON JA307020]

It doesn't. It's my typical disappointment at the lack of diversity in opinions on Star Trek or reserving judgement.


It's not a competition. It's Star Trek. I didn't like VOY but you do. That Trek is out there that you or I don't like shouldn't spoil Star Trek for us, right?

What others think shouldn't spoil what you like. Correct. At the same time what you like doesnt matter to me. But what does matter to me is the quality of the story telling. The way I feel about it. Ill ve watching STA. I'll give it a chance. But im not too keen on what im seeing. Also the time period is not one I wanted to see more of.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Also the time period is not one I wanted to see more of.

Same here but it's what we are getting, fortunately or unfortunately.
I am impressed with the set design though but still wondering how the story would be.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

What others think shouldn't spoil what you like. Correct. At the same time what you like doesnt matter to me. But what does matter to me is the quality of the story telling. The way I feel about it. Ill ve watching STA. I'll give it a chance. But im not too keen on whst im seeing. Also the time period is not one I wanted to see more of.

Then why watch it if it's not what you want to see?

Reasonably, one would judge a product based upon experience, not assumptions. Logic.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Then why watch it if it's not what you want to see?

Reasonably, one would judge a product based upon experience, not assumptions. Logic.

Because ill give it a chance. You never know. But im really picky especially when it comes to how the tech is portrayed. From what im seeing things havent changed a whole lot in 900 years. They still havent replaced warp engines and still using starship to traverse the galaxy. You would think they would have something new after 9 centuries. They never even got a spore drive type tech or at least something that can move the ship long distances in seconds instead of days.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

You would think they would have something new after 9 centuries

I would?

I don't expect Trek tech to change all that much. Mostly, it's just more temporal tech than anything else. The weapons are about the same, the uniforms the same shades, etc.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

Can you cite an example. I can watch a Berman era episode and a Kurzman era episode and it all just feels like Star Trek to me. Other than 90s camera quality and props but that is about the time not the people behind it.

That is not the way Jonathan Frakes tells it.

The biggest difference between Berman era and Kurzman is Berman is language. Berman era shows basically had that stylized Pillar speak. Kurtzman era shows are basically using modern slang and everyone talks like someone in the present day. Granted Orville and SNW both do this and those are great shows so this isn't even a big deal when the stories are good. But it for sure a difference in style. I think both of them are also good examples of how to make Trek work in modern times.

Discovery though tries to hard to be smart and thoughtful but is often undermined by snark and cynicism and despite diversity in terms of gender and race it really doesn't offer much diversity in thought. Compare it to something like DS9. The show has characters with a vast array of different world views. Quark is basically a modern day human. Kira was a terrorist. Bashir started off naive and arrogant. O'Brien is a everyman working class type and family man. Sisko is a farther and a soldier.

If TNG which is about as, Roddenberry Vision as you get still had Worf and the characters do feel distinct. On Discovery everyone basically thinks the same way about ever issue. You got no real conflict that comes from personality or philosophical differences. IMO Star Trek and I would say good tv and movies in general comes from putting a bunch of people together with a whole lot of differences and even they are trying to accomplish a shared task, they end up getting into real conflict on how to do that.

Discovery characters were written it seems primary to provide constant moral support for Burnham as opposed to actually creating any real conflict with her, or even each other. Even when they disagree with her they feel the need to go out of the way and talk about how great she is. To me that stuff rarely works. TNG is like a rare oddity in that regard. Usually it's just boring.

My feelings is Academy will take that same approach. It's like they are trying to sort of be like Star Trek but their cynicism and desire to try and make Trek hip and cool ends up undermining it. Which is another issue. Trek will never be hip and cool. It's basically for nerds and squares. Trek is like the only "action" franchise were the fans want less explosions and battles. Two character talking in a room about the human condition is like the greatest thing ever.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Because ill give it a chance. You never know. But im really picky especially when it comes to how the tech is portrayed. From what im seeing things havent changed a whole lot in 900 years. They still havent replaced warp engines and still using starship to traverse the galaxy. You would think they would have something new after 9 centuries. They never even got a spore drive type tech or at keast something that can move the ship long distances in seconds instead of days.

Tech needs to be relateable. If starfleet was made up of a bunch of manned probes or whatever your testicles would probably shrivel up in rage and you and all the other people currently complaining about the 'lack of advancement' would be saying how it's not trek, because trek has starships.

The fact is we've seen cultures far older than the federation who still use starships. The Dominion is between 2,000 and 10,000 years old, the Klingons have been spacefaring for 1,500 years, the Voth have a culture that is millions of years old. All of them still use starships. Why is there this weird expectation that the Federation has to have ships that are piloted by brains in jars or whatever 1000 years from now?

 

[Michael]

your testicles would probably shrivel up in rage

Dude, language! Disagreeing with posters is fine, but remarks as this one are needlessly personal and insulting. Don‘t do it again.

 

[Mudd]

From what im seeing things havent changed a whole lot in 900 years.

It never does. They change the names of things and come up with new special effects, but the action and story are almost never affected.

The 'shroom drive was an exception, because it gave Starfleet a leg up that could have permanently affected the storytelling. But it didn't.

Communications and transporters and shields will always work when the story calls for that and fail when that's required. They can talk about "programmable matter" and AI, but they still need a room full of people putting hands on things to make the stories happen.

That's why "Trek should always go forward and not back" is such a joke. Change the names of the aliens and allies and enemies - which side are Klingons on, this week? - and just keep doing the same things.

Star Trek stopped being anything like science fiction in most instances decades ago. It's a ritualistic storytelling format, hermetically self-referential, with its own storytelling conventions and rules just like westerns or superhero comics.

It's possible to tell a science fiction story in Star Trek, just as it's possible to tell an action story, mystery, war story, romance etc. But they don't do it often.

 

[Unionized Elf]

It looks at even bad people often as being able to be redeemed.

Not really. Just look at all the evil Admirals or renegade Captains we run into. Most of the time, it ends with them either being arrested and sent to a court martial or killed. That's not redemption.

That is why when you see a racist human like the one towards Data in "Redemption" he is capable of growth and learning the error of his ways at the end and comes to respect him.

He only gave in and followed Data's command because Data had to scream at him. Even putting aside someone being so insubordinate they cause an android not capable of emotions to yell at them, he nearly screwed over the entire mission because of his own bigotry. By the end of that episode the only thing Commander Hobson demonstrated is a reason he should not be a starship's XO anymore.

 

[Danja]

They still havent replaced warp engines and still using starship to traverse the galaxy.

What would you have them use? Stargates?

(Oops! Wrong show! )

 

[Set Harth]

this is Star Trek, we call them "transwarp conduits"

 

[Danja]

this is Star Trek, we call them "transwarp conduits"

How would you traverse through them without a starship?

 

[Jason X-Mas]

Not really. Just look at all the evil Admirals or renegade Captains we run into. Most of the time, it ends with them either being arrested and sent to a court martial or killed. That's not redemption.

He only gave in and followed Data's command because Data had to scream at him. Even putting aside someone being so insubordinate they cause an android not capable of emotions to yell at them, he nearly screwed over the entire mission because of his own bigotry. By the end of that episode the only thing Commander Hobson demonstrated is a reason he should not be a starship's XO anymore.

But he does have that moment were he finally calls Data, Captain. Right after he saw through Sela's plan. For every evil Admiral who goes to jail you have Picard saving the day with a speech or finding the solution to a problem without having to shoot or kill people. People actually listen to reason often in Trek. More often they do in real life. I think people find that maturity in people attractive, especially when compared to real life were people are so often controlled by fear and insecurity to a point were you can't reason with them.