Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Jayson Poorknees]

TNG seasons and how they felt

1 Goofy and TOS like
2 A cross between season 1 and what it would become
3 TNG as we think of it is born.
4 Season 3 but with more sequels and something sort of resembling a story arc involving the Klingons and Romulans
5 TNG on autopilot.The formula was set by now.
6 More character oriented. Female characters start to improve because of Jeri Taylor
7 Out of gas. Worst season since season 1.


DS9

1 Edgy but with lots of TNG porn with characters from TNG showing up
2 Edgy and it's most sophisticated season. It's best season overall
3 DS9 first attempt to become popular. Brings in the Defiant and stops with Bajoran stuff.
4 DS9 's second attempt to become popular. This time with success. Worf works and the Klingons as bad guys sort of worked. The show found it's new groove.
5 The shows second best season. No longer carried about being popular and started taking even more risks.
6 Mostly defined by the 6 episode war arc, Pale Moonlight, creation of Section 31 and Far Beyond the Stars being Trek's most overt criticism of racism since TOS had the guys with half white, half black faces.
7 The war story was getting kind of stale and Dukat no longer being interesting hurts. The final war arc is hit or miss, in part because of Dukat not being interesting anymore.

Will do Voyager a little later. I got to pee.

 

[Campe]

its season 3. they shot season 3 and 4 back to back, so it is likely going to be the same quantity.

Season 5 they are shooting now and can use the feedback from season 3.

also it is still the same writers and showrunners, so the content will still be the same.

Season 3 was in production from May 2, 2023 to December 30, 2023. Source.
Season 4 started filming March 3, 2025. Source.

I don't work in television, but I would think that 15 months would not be considered back to back production.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

Sci-fi plot in foreground (TOS) vs sci-fi plot in background/as backrop to character study (SNW)

Not sure I can agree with TOS being "SF foreground". It was usually just an excuse to do a "character study" or high light a particular topic.

 

[Tuskin38]

Not sure I can agree with TOS being "SF foreground". It was usually just an excuse to do a "character study" or high light a particular topic.

That was even in the TOS writers guide iirc

 

[Tuskin38]

Season 3 was in production from May 2, 2023 to December 30, 2023. Source.

Season 3 started filming December 23rd 2023, and ended May 2024

The dates in your source are the pre-strike dates

But you’re still right that it wasn’t back to back

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

That was even in the TOS writers guide iirc

Indeed
"Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anesthetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and discusses the breed of his horse before he rides off on it." -Gene Roddenberry,

 

[Starflight]

Not sure I can agree with TOS being "SF foreground". It was usually just an excuse to do a "character study" or high light a particular topic.

I'd argue that TOS plots are typically instrinsically tied to a sci-fi (or poltiical/cultural) concept. "The Doomsday Machine" is about Decker, but it's equally about the destruction of the Planet Killer. "City on the Edge of Forever" is about Keeler, but it's all in service of the time travel plot and ultimate decision by Kirk. Similarly "Devil in the Dark" or "A Taste of Armageddon" are about characters in the sense that they're about the Horta and Anan 7, but they're also fairly tightly written action-adventure stories about the protagonists resolving a larger situation.

SNW's approach feels inverted; the sci-fi (or even just adventure) plot seems almost tangential a lot of the time. The best example I can think of off the bat is "What is Starfleet?", which is basically uninterested in its alien-of-the-week and much more interested in revisiting the emotional states of the series regulars. "Charades" is another, the aliens are there to facilitate a forced confession of love from Chapel, and vanish from the episode after that.

I watched Voyager's "Displaced" the other day and it made me think of SNW - the plot features some development for Tom and B'Elanna, but it feels equally interested in the alien culture for its own sake. The episode would work almost as well without the character work, which I think is the balance I find missing from SNW.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

I'd argue that TOS plots are typically instrinsically tied to a sci-fi concept. "The Doomsday Machine" is about Decker, but it's equally about the destruction of the Planet Killer. "City on the Edge of Forever" is about Keeler, but it's all in service of the time travel plot and ultimate decision by Kirk. Similarly "Devil in the Dark" or "A Taste of Armageddon" are about characters in the sense that they're about the Horta and Anan 7, but they're also fairly tightly written action-adventure stories about the protagonists resolving a larger situation.

I think those "SF elements" are secondary to the story of Decker's trauma or Kirk's doomed romance. DITD is about acceptance and finding common ground. ATOA is about face the horrors of war.

 

[fireproof78]

SNW's approach feels inverted; the sci-fi (or even just adventure) plot seems almost tangential a lot of the time. The best example I can think of off the bat is "What is Starfleet?", which is basically uninterested in its alien-of-the-week and much more interested in revisiting the emotional states of the series regulars. "Charades" is another, the aliens are there to facilitate a forced confession of love from Chapel, and vanish from the episode after that.

I just realized that this describes Data's Day too.

 

[Starflight]

I think those "SF elements" are secondary to the story of Decker's trauma or Kirk's doomed romance. DITD is about acceptance and finding common ground. ATOA is about face the horrors of war.

All of those are conveyed through the high-concept frameworks - you can't disentangle the Kirk/Keeler romance from the time paradox, nor the Horta from the story's message, since they're totally integrated and have been created specifically to convey those messages and facilitate those plots.

I'm not sure the same could be said of - again, to pick the easiest examples - "What Is Starfleet", or "Charades". The suicidal alien is just something happening in the background that leads to everyone weeping in the documentary, but it could be swapped out for almost any other stock Star Trek plot, same as the "Charades" aliens.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

Made by the Jim Henson Company too

lol i can imagine during the star trek muppets episode in season 4 pelia mentions jim hensons muppets from the 20th century and the crew members will probley be like who are jim henson and the muppets

 

[Yistaan]

Having some muppet Klingons might be a good way to sneak in augment Klingons, muppet Klingons with smooth foreheads

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

All of those are conveyed through the high-concept frameworks - you can't disentangle the Kirk/Keeler romance from the time paradox, nor the Horta from the story's message, since they're totally integrated and have been created specifically to convey those messages and facilitate those plots.

I'm not sure the same could be said of - again, to pick the easiest examples - "What Is Starfleet", or "Charades". The suicidal alien is just something happening in the background that leads to everyone weeping in the documentary, but it could be swapped out for almost any other stock Star Trek plot, same as the "Charades" aliens.

The time paradox is there in service to the doomed romance. It gets Kirk to Keeler.
The Horta is any person or culture we don't understand. The plot works even if you substitute the Horta with a Native American or a European.
You're right about the doco as the predicament is there to provide conflict for our heroes and examine the ethos of Starfleet. Still it has some heavy SF elements.
Disagree about Charades as you need some SF jiggery pokery to make it work.

 

[Yistaan]

It just occurred to me that people are complaining about too many comedy or offbeat episodes of SNW, Jane Wyatt (Amanda Grayson, Spock's mother in TOS and ST4) apparently thought when filming Journey to Babel that Star Trek was a humorous, comedic-type show and was shocked when everyone on set was so serious. Maybe if she were alive she would like SNW better.

When she was offered the part of Amanda, Jane Wyatt had never heard of Star Trek before, and thought of it as a comedy. She expected to have a week of laughing on the set, but upon arriving for her first day of working on the episode, she was very surprised by how seriously everyone was taking the show.

 

[No Grave Dug]

Not sure I can agree with TOS being "SF foreground". It was usually just an excuse to do a "character study" or high light a particular topic.

TOS was definitely "SF in the foreground for a majority of its episodes."

TNG and the rest of Berman era Trek was very SF adjacent and more like an 80s 'family drama' setup the majority of their episodes.

 

[Tuskin38]

5x03 started filming this week

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

TOS was definitely "SF in the foreground for a majority of its episodes."

TNG and the rest of Berman era Trek was very SF adjacent and more like an 80s 'family drama' setup the majority of their episodes.

I read "SF in the foreground being" about something science based.

 

[No Grave Dug]

I think those "SF elements" are secondary to the story of Decker's trauma or Kirk's doomed romance. DITD is about acceptance and finding common ground. ATOA is about face the horrors of war.

For me - Decker's story was a the B plot of the episode and he was there as a primary plot complication for both Kirk and Spock. Yes, his character DID have a story (and it was a decent and heartfelt one that elivates the episope) - but yeah, they entire overall focus is "How does the 1701 ship and crew beat this thing and save the most densely populated section of the Milky Way Galaxy."

 

[Starflight]

I read "SF in the foreground being" about something science based.

By "sci-fi plot" I just mean any fantastical situation that leads to action or adventure - the Planet Killer, the Horta, a computer war, a gangster planet, an alien child obsessed with Earth, etc.

I think we're slightly talking at cross purposes - TOS is "about people" in the sense that its stories, like all stories, are told through characters. We care about the Planet Killer because we see what it's done to Decker, and the tension comes from Kirk's self-sacrificing gambit to destroy it. SNW is also "about people" but in a very different sense, in that the recurring cast's running trauma/romance/identity crisis arcs are foregrounded and the sci-fi plot of the week is often pushed more into the background, or made to act as a faintly-drawn vehicle to facilitate the character arcs ("Shuttle to Kenfori", to pick another example, doesn't actually care about the zombies or want to construct a plot that resolves their situation, it just wants to get M'Benga into a situation where he confesses his crime to Pike).

This generally didn't happen in TOS because TOS didn't care about running arcs for its characters, they were there to be archetypes who could be slotted into any story, and their role was to facilitate the plot of the week; I'd suggest SNW is the inverse. I think this is a wider trend across much of Western media nowadays, I'm not even necessarily saying it's a bad thing, but it is tangibly distinct from how episodic television generally used to be written.

 

[Firebird]

5x03 started filming this week

The LCARS-themed clapperboard is a nice touch.