Spoilers Strange New Worlds jumps the shark... ("Subspace Rhapsody")
- Thread starter Neb Lleb
- Start date
I had no idea the critiques from the past seasons were somehow "dishonest".
I stan TNG to no ends but TNG fans accept that season 1 was sort of average to weak. I skip a lot of season 1, the only episode I loved was Datalore and that was because it gave us one of trek best villains ever with Lore.
Also shout out to Bret Spnecer for playing the 3 roles very well. Dr. Noonien Soong, Data and Lore. Now TNG season 2 started turning out the hits. Measure of a Man, Elementary my dear data just to name a few, all came from season 2 and the rest is history. Also Riker's beard was perfect and did change a lot about how we are meant to see the character.
As a TNG fan we or I can accept TNG is not even perfect in the 7 seasons, remember we had to deal with Wesley Crusher, a bad mary sue inserted version of Gene Roddenberry himself.
the only difference is TNG fans never really disregarded or disrespected TOS, I feel some in the SNW fandom went out of their way to disregard and demean other treks like Enterprise, Discovery, Klevineverse. The narrative of SNW is that it was the best trek since DS9 and if you do not like it you do not get real trek. huh?
Now that narrative has collapsed, so we can now finally talk about the shows pro and cons equally, something that was not even allowed to be a thing in the first 2 seasons, which also leads to the musical.
season 3 SNW is making some view the musical more harshly. you could not say one negative word about the musical 2 years ago, now it seems like people can thanks to season 3 goofiness.
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Indeed
Bullshit.
Oh, let's see. I was told I don't like real Trek for daring to like:
TOS
Kelvin Trek
TAS
Deep Space Nine
Discovery
And Strange New Worlds.
N-Trek getting the shaft is pretty much in line with all my wonderful fandom experience over 30 years.
First, @gabby1701 , can I ask you to please use spellcheck or at least proofread? Your posts are very hard to read.
That's really not true. At least not here. In fact, I would argue that its the complete opposite, especially after season 3. There is so much gatekeeping now about SNW (and by extension other shows post-2005) being "not real Star Trek." It is exhausting having to wade through the fights about "canon" and "continuity" being broken in this show because the ship doesn't look like it did in 1966, that they actually have given Chapel a character, that Spock, our half Vulcan/half human is actually showing his <gasp> human side. It is just too much to deal with.
That's really not true. At least not here. In fact, I would argue that its the complete opposite, especially after season 3. There is so much gatekeeping now about SNW (and by extension other shows post-2005) being "not real Star Trek." It is exhausting having to wade through the fights about "canon" and "continuity" being broken in this show because the ship doesn't look like it did in 1966, that they actually have given Chapel a character, that Spock, our half Vulcan/half human is actually showing his <gasp> human side. It is just too much to deal with.
I personally don't like Buffy, but a lot of people do. I've seen a large number of movies and TV shows over the years, ranging from old silent films clear up to the modern day. Nearly all shows and movies take inspiration from or directly copy their predecessors, so I usually don't care if someone else is supposed to have done it better. Sure, I could compare every slapstick comedy show to Buster Keaton or Laurel and Hardy, but what would be the point? If I liked it, I liked it.so we are on the same page. sort off.
it is a good episode but if we compare to Buffy that it inspired from, those that have seen the buffy episode including me find it generic to that.
Example: The Buffy musical was ranked In 2009 by TV Guide as 14th on its list of "TV's Top 100 Episodes of All Time.
Is this the same tv guide that said SNW was ruined because of spock's romance crappy drama and we even had one of the lowest moments of his many crappy romances in subspace-rhapsody
^
THIS!
VOYAGER is one of the best examples in the franchise of a show having glaring issues. REALLY glaring issues.Well, except Voyager.
But that's a different thread...
But they did have some really great episodes. ("EYE OF THE NEEDLE", "THE THAW", "DISTANT ORIGIN", "LIVING WITNESS", "TIMELESS", "COURSE: OBLIVION", "SURVIVAL INSTINCT", "BLINK OF AN EYE", "THE VOID", among others.)
Exactly.
Was Subspace Rhapsody as good as Once More With Feeling? No (IMO), but I still enjoyed the hell out of it. I was singing "I'm the X" for a couple of weeks afterward.
Was the Scrubs musical episode as good as Once More With Feeling? No, but I love it.
Was the Once Upon a Time musical episode as good as Once More With Feeling? No, but there are some catchy tunes in there, so I enjoy it.
Was the Community musical episode as good as Once More With Feeling? No, but it was a classic and hilarious.
Was the Psych musical episode as good as Once More With Feeling? No, but it's pretty darn clever and I enjoy it.
Was the Grey's Anatomy musical episode as good as Once More With Feeling? No, but Sara Ramirez can belt.
We can love two things. Or even more than that, I'm told.
On the other hand, is Once More With Feeling as good as Wicked, Into The Woods, Hamilton, Come From Away (that legit makes me cry every time I listen to or watch it)? In my opinion no, but I still love it. So can we stop using Once More With Feeling as some kind of weird quality yard stick?
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I am dyslexic so I cannot see many of my errors but I will try.
I disagree with you. one of my main issues is that SNW was the first trek post 2005 that was hailed as real trek, we had some showrunner or a past show runner saying this at comic con panels. it was very disrespectful to the other folks that worked on the other trek series.
Paramount and the show-runners wanted that narrative for SNW. they marketed the show on this idea, that this was real star trek at last since 2005. They took advantage of the mixed to poor reception of Discovery and JJ Abrams now been a nerd pariah, many unfairly dismissing his entire body of work including kelvintrek as trash, to anoint SNW as the saviour of trek.
This was the narrative that was set for SNW the last 3 years and what a flawed narrative and maybe the worst ever.I can find 10 access media spin articles all saying this narrative that SNW is the first real star trek since 2005.
fan loyalty aside do people honestly believe that SNW Spock makes any sense? we know it is not true because some of the things kelvin spock does make no sense too and we called him out for it and he is still closer to TOS.many trekkies never 100% really got on board with Spock dating Uhura for like 7 years in an alternate universe. So why should we get on board with Spock banging Tpring/Chapel/Laan in a TOS prequel in a space of 2 years and all so fast.
Is the teen melodrama a better fit for star trek than the concept of red matter? I can disagree on what is real star trek but some things are just too far fetch, since even a perhaps bad sci fi concept as red matter is still part of star trek than 90210 plots. Also, we are not against giving Chapel more, Give Chapel something but give her something good, genuinely good.
TOS was my grand-parents generation, my dad was from the TNG generation, I used to watch it as a kid with my dad but only got into it after 2009 as an adult and was I blown away by TNG, mostly when it started getting good by season 2. TNG is the best sci fi series I have seen. Picard, Riker and Data are in my top 10 best trek characters and in my top 5 male best characters of all time. It is sad we do not even have these kinds of characters in SNW.
My dad never cared big for TOS but his and his trek crowd from the 80s were sort of respectful towards TOS. My experience is different from yours but I do not see that kind of respect for post 2005 nu trek since SNW. well it's all over anyway. we do not have to be in that narrative anymore. S3 took it all away.
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Buffy is fantasy not sci-fi and Buffy had a very original humour called The Whedon humor. it is not Laurel and Hardy at all and I know Laurel and Hardy.
Buffy was also a pop culture series and referenced star trek at times. in fact Buffy season 6 had nerdy fan boy geeks who were into star trek, star wars and x-men for the main villains until Dark Willow.
It's a good to excellent series, that did some few good sci fiction concept like episodes called out of mind,out of sight or I was made to love you. the sci-fi was limited but that buffy musical episode was a landmark on TV and the SNW creators made it no secret this was their main influence so for it to fall short of expectation was sort of bad when you are also running with the star trek brand.
Same here, along with a few others! They still make it onto my music playlist every now and then. I caught my wife humming a few of them after she watched it too!
What do you mean ''There's no winning with/isn't there?''
Yes.
Where did I say it was sci-fi? And yes, I know what the humor is like, I've seen some Buffy and liked Firefly.
And where did I say Whedon humor was similar to Laurel and Hardy?
I'm familiar with the show, both from popular culture and seeing some myself. You seemed to have missed the whole section where I said I don't care who copied who. I like SNW, and I didn't like Buffy.
Yes, the bar was just too high with Once More With Feeling. it does not take away anything from SNW, it only becomes an issue when some say this is the best musical tv episode of all time to keep the narrative of SNW been the best trek ever for the modern age going.
I feel that is what is all about because come on, if we go by objective honesty we know.... case in point..... SNW Spock needs some kind of divine vulcan intervention from the vulcan elders for all his escapades
.Need to snap him back to been a real Vulcan. ASAP
Also, yes.
From now on I believe all TOS reviews should refer to Forbidden Planet and whether or not the episode lines up with that.
If you find this absurd then so is every other comparison.
Finally, someone here is talking sense.
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