Season 4 First Clip

[Rahul]

It's weird that no one seems to be mentioning the gay married couple who were awesome and wonderfully portrayed. Adira and Gray were not my favorite, adorable as they were. I kind of felt like the actors themselves were too inexperienced and didn't have the chops to meet the moment. That's my take. Hugh and Paul were perfect though. Also, I fucking love Discovery.

Stamets & Culbert never really disappointed. But IMO sometimes fall into the (very mild) trope of being the "too perfect" gay model couple.
I liked early Stamets more when he was kind of an asshole sometimes, and would also have liked to see some up and downs in their relationship. But that's a DIS problem in general, being way too saccharine later on.

I love SNW to death. But it's also very heteronormative. They could have benefited from an Adira in their crew. Though they 100% would emotionally wreck her relationship(s) for good drama.

 

[gabby1701]

Stamets & Culbert never really disappointed. But IMO sometimes fall into the (very mild) trope of being the "too perfect" gay model couple.
I liked early Stamets more when he was kind of an asshole sometimes, and would also have liked to see some up and downs in their relationship. But that's a DIS problem in general, being way too saccharine later on.

I love SNW to death. But it's also very heteronormative. They could have benefited from an Adira in their crew. Though they 100% would emotionally wreck her relationship(s) for good drama.

Stamets & Culbert were constant and the resident couple , I think the discovery executed the concept well to show a gay couple who were mostly stable and happy, they had some though issues after tyler sort of killed Culbert but they worked it through.

Discovery job was to show a gay couple Stamets & Culbert in long lasting relationship and they achieved that. Also more memorable than Adira/Grey. Adira/Grey were just too young and done too on the nose, not comparable to Stamets & Culbert.

I can see Stamets & Culbert in modern family and they will blend fine or just be another gay couple, I could not really see Adira/Gray there, this seem to me how forced Adira/Gray were

 

[Uhura's Song]

Stamets & Culbert never really disappointed. But IMO sometimes fall into the (very mild) trope of being the "too perfect" gay model couple.
I liked early Stamets more when he was kind of an asshole sometimes, and would also have liked to see some up and downs in their relationship. But that's a DIS problem in general, being way too saccharine later on.

I love SNW to death. But it's also very heteronormative. They could have benefited from an Adira in their crew. Though they 100% would emotionally wreck her relationship(s) for good drama.

Gotta,say I disagree there. I thought the Stamets/Culber breakup after the resurrection was really well done. That wasn't perfect couple, it was breakup.

Disagree on SNW as well. Chapel goes both ways. Ortegas is ambiguous. Una/Huntress and Ortegas/Adya were a couple in Elysian Kingdom.

 

[gabby1701]

Gotta,say I disagree there. I thought the Stamets/Culber breakup after the resurrection was really well done. That wasn't perfect couple, it was breakup.

Disagree on SNW as well. Chapel goes both ways. Ortegas is ambiguous. Una/Huntress and Ortegas/Adya were a couple in Elysian Kingdom.

Ortega is ambiguous? or a lesbian? Why does everyone say this about her. I even see many trek youtubers implying this about Ortega since season 1 that she is gay or ambiguous even if it has never been mentioned.

I think this shows the power of western tv media and we know how hollywood plays this game.we know as POC how they like to present white characters in contrast to the non white characters. racist hollywood knows how to present characters as what they want the audience to interpret them as even if they do not come out and flat out say so.

some characters would be presented as sexually describable, others as asexual or non threatening to the other characters others playing into superficial lesbian stereotypes or ambiguous.

I think SNW did a good job playing into this media propaganda, I do not think it helps some POC on the show though.

Chapel is the one that swings both ways it was said in season 1 episode 5, and we know nothing of Ortega love life but people by default just assume she is lesbian or ambiguous simply because she is presented as butch, tom boyish and has a bad short hair cut that does nothing good for the actress bone structure, while chapel has been presented more as feminine, girly, soft and is usually dressed like the model Jess Bush is.

the only issue is that it plays into stereotypes of women and race. the white girl is seen by default as the 100% feminine one that guys (male audience) are meant swoon over, while the latino girl is the one who is just seen in default as the lesbian that is not meant to be coded as desirable to the male audience like the white girl is.

The fact that SNW is playing into this stereotypes is funny since TOS by 60s standard was not even this bad.

 

[Starflight]

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd even call Ortegas butch; she's wearing eyeshadow half the time (then again, so's everyone in the 23rd century).She doesn't look androgynous at all, nor do I think she's intended to, she just has a weird haircut.

 

[gabby1701]

I was thinking that yesterday but didn't comment. I've chosen not to interact.

Peck IS better than Quinto, his "Khaaan" and subsequent Hulk-rage totally blew away any respect or enjoyment of the role and the movie. I haven't watched any of the K-verse movies since.

Peck does not even act like a vulcan,lol. something that is way too obvious now that even critics who liked the first 2 seasons can no longer ignore.

I can criticised the last 3rd arc of Into Darkness but when you take into account the rest of the trilogy, it will not be close. At this point it will be miracle if we see Peck show some real growth and maturity as Quinto did in Star Trek Beyond.

The excuses that Peck Spock is still a kid exploring his human side to excuse the ooc of the character is not flying anymore.

Quinto Spock in Into Darkness would have likely have had sex with Carol Marcus after Uhura got angry with him for not caring much about them . Yeah, this is how bad Spock is written in SNW. Quinto Spock is way beyond that.that is why he is better. the facts are there to back it up in the characterization.

also it helps that Kelvin trek still stuck the good traditional aspect of TOS, so it portrays the male characters way better than SNW and that gives Quinto an edge you cannot even begin to imagine.

Peck even fails the basic aspect of vulcans. they have mystery to them. I mean he is supposed to be better than Quinto but Peck remind people less of TOS Spock, while Quinto mostly those. that in itself objectively should hurt the argument that Peck is better, it should even hurt Peck more since Peck is meant to be TOS Spock.

Also Quinto Spock mostly knew how to do humour. In trek lore, you are suppose to laugh with Spock not laugh at Spock. what is one of the major criticism of SNW? That they like to turn spock into a clown and make him goofy as most of the whole show. but dont yet dread the puppet episode until we have seen it.

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd even call Ortegas butch; she's wearing eyeshadow half the time (then again, so's everyone in the 23rd century).She doesn't look androgynous at all, nor do I think she's intended to, she just has a weird haircut.

I think it is the styling and I disliked Ortega's styling since season 1. the hair should have grown out also by season 3. the actress looks so different in real life , it is uncanny. In SNW When they were in their normal party or dinner clothes, I hated how Oretaga was styled standing next to chapel in the Children of the Comet episode, she sort of looked like a little boy that is why people say she is ambiguous.

Meanwhile Chapel was styled spectually good and very feminine, I would even argue quite sexy, I mean I could tell from episode 2 that Chapel would be the one getting all the big love story lines based on how she was styled even though in TOS, the male audience did not even see Chapel that way. So um, yeah....we know how hollywood plays the game but they want some of us POC to act dumb about it. I think jennifer lopez who is latina once called hollywood out for her they always like to code latin women as ambiguous or maids next to the white girls.

 

[fireproof78]

Peck does not even act like a vulcan,

He's not one.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Peck does not even act like a vulcan,

Neither did Leonard Nimoy in The Cage.

 

[ILovePuppies]

Both Peck and Qunito have their strengths. They're both great actors who have risen to a very challenging role. I think that Quinto was more like Nimoy's established Spock but that Peck is more like I would expect a half human / half Vucan who is struggling a bit to behave. Peck's Spock has gone too far for me this season but that's the writing and not Peck himself. I think he was stellar in season 1 and 2.

 

[Rahul]

Leonard Nimoy had one of the most uniquely shaped faces.

And Quinto had the benefit of a less extreme, younger, more sexy, but overall similarly shaped face. Additionally his acting choice was great to show someone boiling from emotions on the inside, but controlling it all towards the outside.
Though that only is interesting for a short time, perfect for a movie - until Into Darkness completely ruined it.

Peck's character is more like a sexy Sheldon Cooper. It's a good tv character in it's own way. It's not totally off. It's probably the best interpretation that is possible if you have a friendly, round face like Peck. But overall - it's very far away from the "original" Spock character.

 

[gabby1701]

Leonard Nimoy had one of the most uniquely shaped faces.

And Quinto had the benefit of a less extreme, younger, more sexy, but overall similarly shaped face. Additionally his acting choice was great to show someone boiling from emotions on the inside, but controlling it all towards the outside.
Though that only is interesting for a short time, perfect for a movie - until Into Darkness completely ruined it.

Peck's character is more like a sexy Sheldon Cooper. It's a good tv character in it's own way. It's not totally off. It's probably the best interpretation that is possible if you have a friendly, round face like Peck. But overall - it's very far away from the "original" Spock character.

Quinto was best in beyond more like nimoy and his dynamic with bones was a dream come through for TOS fans. the best part of beyond no doubt.

Quinto is also sort of wise and no where near as angry like the first film. I also think the humour of Spock in Beyond is funny and even very intelligent because it does not feel it s trying too hard, like the scene where the crew discovers Uhura's necklace is actually a stalking vulcan device and spock can locate her anywhere as long as she wears it. this is how you do vulcan humour, and you can add romance and even science fiction all at once, since the necklace was made out of some kind of mineral.

Remember that Spock is not only very intelligent as in book smart, he is Wise, this is what makes the TOS movies fun. the 79 episode series dwelled more on spock's intelligence, the movies dwelled a lot on his wisdom and we see it come full circle in star trek 2009 now that he is old and Spock Prime.

Something in snw, Peck Spock nearly has male friends to confide in about his girl issues that is meant to be realistic or even like star trek, so I do not agree he is like a sheldon cooper because the big bang theory was balanced with gender and having male and female pov and that gave the series depth and sheldon's friends knew a lot about Sheldon's neurotic relationship with Amy and also seem invested in it. lol

Yes, Peck Spock is far beyond from the character as Rodenberry created him and I also think this is why the narrative of season 4 from the overloads at paramount is that Peck's Spock will become TOS Spock very soon because they too know SNW is not making sense.

I think a better thing to have asked the overloads is why they needed to use teeny romance arcs to show Spock's growth since the aftermath of discovery season 2 framed SNW as a spin off with Spock/Una serving under Pike and showing more of that dynamic. that is not even really a thing in SNW since Una/Pike feel sometimes like supporting characters and we get mostly the Spock/Chapel/Laan show.

 

[fireproof78]

Romance is a part of the human journey.

 

[Smear-Gel]

Adria and Gray served no real purpose but to be just what they were, a stand in for non binary couples. they were just poorly created and also it does not help that discovery did not really have the greatest writing.

Adira and Gray were not my favorite, adorable as they were. I kind of felt like the actors themselves were too inexperienced and didn't have the chops to meet the moment.

The problem with Adira and Grey I think was that they had a plotline in season 3, about a character wanting to be "seen" as a metaphor for identity and queer found families and all of that was well done. And then season 4 happened and they had two extra characters they had absolutely nothing to do with, and so they kinda just stand around for the rest of the series. They kinda try to put Adira into the greenhorn Tilly role and elevate Tilly out of that but beyond that I feel they just had nothing else to do or say with them but kept them at the same level of presence in the show.

 

[Firebird]

Neither did Leonard Nimoy in The Cage.

Oh there you go, bringing facts into things again!

 

[Quinton]

Quite the obviously pointed trailer, but I dig it.

It will be pretty funny if the consensus that the buoy is from the Enterprise ends up incorrect. Because, whew, I am seeing it said everywhere, haha.

 

[eschaton]

Without getting into critiquing the looks of the female actors/characters on the show, I'll say I get massive Nana Visitor vibes off Navia. Both of them are traditionally beautiful women that the showrunners decided to butch up because they weren't "the hot one." Honesty, their voices are pretty similar as well.

 

[Sketcher]

Without getting into critiquing the looks of the female actors/characters

Both of them are traditionally beautiful women that the showrunners decided to butch up because they weren't "the hot one."

Proceeds to critique anyway...

 

[gabby1701]

Without getting into critiquing the looks of the female actors/characters on the show, I'll say I get massive Nana Visitor vibes off Navia. Both of them are traditionally beautiful women that the showrunners decided to butch up because they weren't "the hot one." Honesty, their voices are pretty similar as well.

I agree 100%, I think this show has a lot of sophisticated disingenuous stereotypes about how they present characters something I would even say TOS reversed by 60s standards, but only many POC have figured it out, I have actually seen it talked about on some reddit boards. Usually, I will want to post my honest thoughts here but I think it will get very misinterpreted and I did get shoved so I rather just keep it to myself.

What I will say though, they need to give Laan a different hair style than the mostly two braided cornrows she wears that always makes her look tense, tight and angry. Unlike Chapel, Laan feels like two different characters when she is in a dinner dress and her star fleet uniform. A Space Adventure hour and wedding bell blues, Laan sparkled. I would even say she was outshining Chapel.

In the episode a quality of mercy the finale to season 1, with alternate Laan, she looked great and did not feel like the same Laan from the original timeline. I would like to see them do more with Laan styling especially now that she is dating Spock.

Overall I do not like the uniforms for the women, the are okay on men but not the women. TNG has perhaps the best uniform, it was unisex that look good on both the men and women equally, which is a rare thing.

Proceeds to critique anyway...

As said above I have some critiques that will be read very differently, so I would save that for tumblr instead but as a POC, I am not the happiest with how many characters have been handled or some of the retcons based on what we know from TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

What I will say though, they need to give Laan a different hair style than the mostly two braided hair she wears that always makes her look tense, though and angr

Good.

 

[Firebird]

What I will say though, they need to give Laan a different hair style than the mostly two braided cornrows she wears that always makes her look tense, tight and angry.

What's next, you gonna say that she needs to smile more and wear shorter skirts?