Strange New Worlds disappointment

[Danny99]

He accepted his fate at the end of Season 1.

And he just doesn't think about it at all after that? He doesn't have a weak moment where he thinks about how to get out of it again? When he is being romantic with Batel and building a relationship and a future, he doesn't have one consideration about what he would be locking her into if it gets that far? No one just accepts they have a ticking clock and lives as if they didn;t.

 

[fireproof78]

And he just doesn't think about it at all after that? He doesn't have a weak moment where he thinks about how to get out of it again? When he is being romantic with Batel and building a relationship and a future, he doesn't have one consideration about what he would be locking her into if it gets that far? No one just accepts they have a ticking clock and lives as if they didn;t.

He knows the consequences if he doesn't.

 

[The Wormhole]

And he just doesn't think about it at all after that? He doesn't have a weak moment where he thinks about how to get out of it again? When he is being romantic with Batel and building a relationship and a future, he doesn't have one consideration about what he would be locking her into if it gets that far? No one just accepts they have a ticking clock and lives as if they didn;t.

There are people who learn they have serious health afflictions like ALS or whatever that though there is a time they can continue normally, it will eventually result in drastic changes to their lives and eventually in death that learn to make peace with this and move on. Pike is like those people.

 

[Noname Given]

And he just doesn't think about it at all after that? He doesn't have a weak moment where he thinks about how to get out of it again? When he is being romantic with Batel and building a relationship and a future, he doesn't have one consideration about what he would be locking her into if it gets that far? No one just accepts they have a ticking clock and lives as if they didn;t.

Sure he still thinks about it; but he's accepted his fate and yes, I think Anson Mount has played the character as if it still affects him in certain scenes - but that effect doesn't rise to the level it did in SNW S1 A Quality Of Mercy - where he was visibly shaken in public, excused himself, and walked into the ship's corridors.

 

[Mudd]

There are people who learn they have serious health afflictions like ALS or whatever that though there is a time they can continue normally, it will eventually result in drastic changes to their lives and eventually in death that learn to make peace with this and move on. Pike is like those people.

Exactly.

The point of all drama is not to live inside one character's head while they ponder their existential plights - although that's a perfectly legitimate and indeed the raison d'etre of some great storytelling.

Original Recipe Star Trek was a TV drama built on an action-adventure format. SNW leans into that, not nearly to the extent of TOS, but far more so than any of the other TV revivals and sequels.

Season one heavily featured PIke's Talosian arc, if you will, beginning with the first episode, through "Children of the Comet" and culminating in "A Quality of Mercy." He went from hesitance and self-concern about his future suffering, through an epiphany about the pitfalls of dwelling in certainty about events that have not yet come to pass, to acceptance that he could not protect others by turning away from his path any more than he could protect himself by worrying about it.

And that's a fine place to leave it, for the most part, in an ensemble series in which the journeys of other characters matter as much as his. I don't doubt that the writers will revisit his destiny and what it means to him in the final episodes of the series.

 

[Char Kais]

If anything TNG was DEFINITELY a show ABOUT Star Trek because for the first two seasons they went out of their way with the background props of studio models from TOS in all their shots

What?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you referring to the models in the observation lounge?

name dropping TOS characters and situations and hell even doing a full and horrible remake of TOS S1 The Naked Time with TNG S1 The Naked Now.

Other than the 30s cameo of McCoy in the premier episode and "The Naked Now" can you provide examples of "name dropping TOS characters and situations" in the first two seasons of TNG?


https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/stp...about-fan-service.313285/page-2#post-14396191

TNG had 176 episodes.
Three of these episodes were focused on legacy characters. Sarek, Unification, Relics.

DS9 had 173 episodes.
Three of these episodes were focused on legacy characters. Blood Oath, The Sword of Kahless, Once More Unto the Breach.

VOY had 168 episodes.
No episode was focused on legacy characters.

ENT:
T'Pau was in 3 of 97 episodes. But these episodes didn't focus on her. She plays a major role, but she is not the focus (unlike Sarek in "Sarek"). Enterprise was not built around these 3 season 4 episodes with T'Pau.

TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT were not built on legacy characters.

From 614 Berman-era episodes, 6 (9 if you count the 3 ENT episodes) are focused on legacy characters. Even if you count the two 30th Star Trek tribute episodes you get 11 out of 614 episodes.

Maybe you call these episodes "fan service/nostalgia bait/memberberries", but TNG DS9 VOY and ENT are not built around these episodes. That is not their identity.

 

[Noname Given]

What?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you referring to the models in the observation lounge?




Other than the 30s cameo of McCoy in the premier episode and "The Naked Now" can you provide examples of "name dropping TOS characters and situations" in the first two seasons of TNG?


https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/stp...about-fan-service.313285/page-2#post-14396191

Um...can you chart all that for me? I'm slow...

 

[Char Kais]

Um...can you chart all that for me? I'm slow...

Any arguments other than snide comments?

 

[Rahul]

By the end of season 2, I was of the opinion that SNW has had several good, even very good, episodes, but I was still waiting for it to have its great episode. The one that puts it on the map in the way that Measure of a Man or Duet did for earlier shows. I largely like the look of the show, I largely like its actors, and I felt that it was only a matter of time before it finally found its footing and reached those heights as well.

After season 3... I'm not sure I'm as optimistic. If I had to describe this season, I would say that the writers are writing for characters first and foremost. They decide that it's time for a Spock episode, or a Kirk episode, and they write the character's arc through the episode first, then craft the rest of the episode around that. That's not a wrong way to make an episode, persay, but I think it does lead to the "Strange New Worlds" feeling like an afterthought. I like Star Trek for the interesting scenarios that only a science fiction program can provide, but the show this last season has lost that interesting spark for me. I think even at its worst I like it a hell of a lot more than I liked Discovery or Picard, but with season 4 being filmed already, I suspect the show will continue down this path for the majority of its remaining run.

It's funny, because I love the show. But I have the same observation.

For me, this series might have the highest average quality of any Trek series - like, every other episode is an 8 or a 9 for me.
Part of it sadly is the short seasons, with only 10 episodes, and all being mostly solid. TOS, TNG etc. all have a ton of garbage. But also a ton of good and even great episodes.
Even DIS, which I don't really like, where for me almost every episodes is between a 4 and a 7, has one or two 10s in its run.
On SNW, (almost) every single episode has so much content & is so up to snuff, I'm almost never disappointed. However even the best ones are missing that teeny, tiny, little extra edge, that comes from being a little bit too risky, that often leads to failure. (Which is funny, because the show takes a ton of risks from a Trek purists' perspective).
I love the show. It's great. But maybe it sometimes needs to go that extra mile, to really dig into one single idea, that could be stupid, and really go all in, and not making it "safe" by adding a ton of other, also interesting stuff into the same episode.

Sadly (or gladly?), with season 4 already being filmed & 5 likely being a much more controlled 6 episodes arc - I expect the rest of the series to remain the same - super solid, way above average, but still missing it's absolute stand-out, outlier episodes.

 

[Noname Given]

Any arguments other than snide comments?

My arguments were in the other part of the post you decided to just selectively quote one part of just to make your response to it - as well as a follow up post. Read the entire post and the rest of my responses in the thread.

 

[Annorax849]

It's galling to me because it's a third season nosedive, which is much rarer.

Following TOS footsteps once again...

 

[FredH]

I'm a Trek fan but when this series came out I was truly disappointed with the boring drama and bad acting.

????? Different perceptions, I guess.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Oscar for the most absurd fantasy drama pretending to be a science fiction show goes to SNW.

Tell me you never watched Star Trek, without tell me you never watched Star Trek

 

[El Maestro]

What?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you referring to the models in the observation lounge?




Other than the 30s cameo of McCoy in the premier episode and "The Naked Now" can you provide examples of "name dropping TOS characters and situations" in the first two seasons of TNG?


https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/stp...about-fan-service.313285/page-2#post-14396191

Yeah the criticism really makes no sense. TNG was a masterclass for how to establish something as part of an existing universe and still do your own thing. I think OP just doesn't like TNG. Which is fine...but that criticism is just super bizarre and not really based in reality.

 

[Michael]

There are people who learn they have serious health afflictions like ALS or whatever that though there is a time they can continue normally, it will eventually result in drastic changes to their lives and eventually in death that learn to make peace with this and move on. Pike is like those people.

Yes! This is why I think Pike is a fascinatingly tragic figure. They have a unique opportunity on this show to tell the story about an aspect of life most people thankfully never have to face: having the strength to live despite severe illness, disability, pain or even impending death. Fiction tends to tell stories about people who either manage to heroically overcome the evil coming their way or sacrifice themselves for a greater good. But rarely does it highlight the overwhelming strength of people who face the worst that life is throwing at them and still decide to go on every damn day. I must say having my little sister suffer a stroke almost two years ago and have her life be utterly upended by it really made me realize how true this is.

I think both the writers and Anson Mount as a performer are certainly rising to the occasion in portraying this tragedy. As others have been saying, they rarely if ever directly touch upon his fate anymore on the show, but still you can sense that Mount is playing Pike with a heavy somberness and sincerity in almost every scene.

I truly hope the writers won’t somehow chicken out in the end following through on Pike’s fate. I feel it would damage the entire storyline to somehow find a way to have him avert what’s coming.

 

[Dar70]

100% disagree. If anything TNG was DEFINITELY a show ABOUT Star Trek because for the first two seasons they went out of their way with the background props of studio models from TOS in all their shots and name dropping TOS characters and situations and hell even doing a full and horrible remake of TOS S1 The Naked Time with TNG S1 The Naked Now.

TNG rarely really showed you it was Star Trek, it just TOLD you it was a majority of the time.

The TNG characters were rarely relatable to a modern audience because they were all supposedly 'perfectly adjusted' with NO PREDJUDICES and they never had a conflict with other crewmembers (unless under Alien influence) because that was now Gene's Vision™.

And Jean Luc Picard was often the ultimate hypocrite as it was often "Do as I pontificate...(Yeh, don't pay attention to what myself and the Federation often do, because when that does happen it's always for a good reason and besides - we're BETTER than you.)

SNW is classic STAR TREK returned to it's actual roots - and it's the best version of STAR TREK since the original went off the air in 1969.

Totally don't agree. They were not perfect characters. Next gen was in the final days of stagnant character development for these kinds of shows. Where things kind of reset every epsode. By the end of the series things had changed In scripted TV and it began to show in TNG and DS9 was when it really took hold.

At any rate TNG did not rely on TOS nearly as much as SNW. You can say it all you want about little models in the background or Doctor Mccoy or Spock etc. but all that stuff was from the shows PAST. But here we have SNW and everything now is happening first with Pikes crew instead of Kirk...

-All of Kirks bridge Crew served under Pike first CHECK
- Holo Deck happened first under Pike CHECK
- Met Gorn First CHECK
-First Meeting with Metrons CHECK
-First Meeting with Trelane CHECK

There are others I'm sure.

Not to mention all the other little nods to star Trek Enterprise....(The NX-01 picture in the briefing room...)

SNW in the last 9 episodes probably did more TOS references than TNG ever did in 178 and it PREDATES TOS so it feels completely off.... ....at least it felt linear in TNG.....

 

[fireproof78]

.at least it felt linear in TNG.....

Hahahaha...

No.

 

[Danny99]

Yes! This is why I think Pike is a fascinatingly tragic figure. They have a unique opportunity on this show to tell the story about an aspect of life most people thankfully never have to face: having the strength to live despite severe illness, disability, pain or even impending death. Fiction tends to tell stories about people who either manage to heroically overcome the evil coming their way or sacrifice themselves for a greater good. But rarely does it highlight the overwhelming strength of people who face the worst that life is throwing at them and still decide to go on every damn day. I must say having my little sister suffer a stroke almost two years ago and have her life be utterly upended by it really made me realize how true this is.

I think both the writers and Anson Mount as a performer are certainly rising to the occasion in portraying this tragedy. As others have been saying, they rarely if ever directly touch upon his fate anymore on the show, but still you can sense that Mount is playing Pike with a heavy somberness and sincerity in almost every scene.

I truly hope the writers won’t somehow chicken out in the end following through on Pike’s fate. I feel it would damage the entire storyline to somehow find a way to have him avert what’s coming.

I can see that, I'll keep it in mind while watching.

 

[Artoo Atari]

At the risk of sounding like a Discovery hater, I really didn't expect to run into a comment basically saying "The Strange New Worlds crew acts unprofessional, unlike the Discovery crew."

Yeah, my jaw kinda dropped at that comment too. The crew on SNW or TNG joking with each other and lightening the mood are one thing, but I found the DISCO gang to be simply juvenile.

SNW is comfort food viewing.

Well put. In spite of its problems, I guess that's why I enjoy watching it. It's fun.

 

[Uhura's Song]

I'm a Trek fan but when this series came out I was truly disappointed with the boring drama and bad acting. The actors are not what I expected. They don't act professionally like other star trek crews. The stories are boring and I lost interest within the first 5 minutes. As the series progressed, the show got worse, more drama and more boring stories. Not to mention the singing musical show. Just not at all what I expect in Star trek. Discovery was a great series and I was sorry to see it end. I had really hoped Strange new worlds would be exciting like Discovery.

Could not disagree more.

S3 has been a step down, but still fine.

SNW is the best live action Trek since DS9.